* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:03] UH, GOOD MORNING. UH, THANKS [ Call to Order] FOR EVERYONE TO COME. UH, WE'RE GONNA GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED. AND THE RECORDS SHOW IT IS 9 0 4 FOR THE PARKER COUNTY COMMISSIONER'S COURT SPECIAL AGENDA ON TUESDAY 29TH OF APRIL, 2025. AND WE'RE GONNA MOVE TO ITEM ONE ON [I.A. Discuss/Take action on options regarding Justice Center feedback. (Charlie Kearns / Judge Deen)] DISCUSS AND TAKE ACTION ON OPTIONS REGARDING JUSTICE CENTER FEEDBACK. UH, CHARLIE, IF YOU WOULD COME ON UP MORNING, JUDGE. COURT. GOOD MORNING. MY NAME'S CHARLIE KERNS. I, UH, I WAS ASKED BY THE COMMITTEE A COUPLE WEEKS AGO TO SIT DOWN AND HAVE SOME DISCUSSIONS TO KIND OF GET SOME FEEDBACK AND JUST GENERALLY KIND OF GET A STATE OF THE UNION ON WHERE WE WERE WITH EVERYTHING. COMMISSIONER HOLT, I APOLOGIZE. WE DIDN'T GET TO SIT DOWN 'CAUSE WE DIDN'T GET TO SIT DOWN. SORRY FOR YOUR LOSS AND SCHEDULING. I GUESS I'VE HAD SOME EXCITING THINGS GOING ON, SO YES, SIR. MORE RECENTLY THAN THAT, SO WE'RE GOOD. OKAY. SO, BUT, UM, UH, SO I'M GONNA KIND OF JUST, UM, GIVE YOU A GENERAL OVERVIEW OF WHAT WE TALKED ABOUT, AND THEN I THINK IT'S MAYBE JUST SOME Q AND A AND WE'VE GOT THE COMMITTEE REPRESENTATIVES HERE AND WHEREVER Y'ALL WANT TO TAKE THIS. BUT, UM, TWO THINGS. WELL, FIRST OF ALL, I WANNA THANK EVERYBODY FOR THEIR TIME. THE, THE THING THAT CAME OUT OF EVERY, THE MEETINGS WITH EVERYONE, THE MAIN THING WAS, IS THAT THIS PROJECT, A COURTHOUSE AND A JAIL IS NEEDED IN PARKER COUNTY. THAT WAS THE FIRST THING OUT OF EVERYBODY'S MOUTH DURING THE DISCUSSIONS, THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN. UM, THE SECOND THING WAS, IS, UH, THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS ON, WE HAVE SOME PROPERTY, EXISTING PROPERTY WE OWN AT, AT OUR, UH, POOR FARM THAT, UH, IS CLOSE TO THE, THE SITE THAT THE COMMITTEE PRESENTED. AND THERE WAS SOME QUESTIONS ON WHY ARE WE SPENDING MONEY ON PROPERTY WHEN WE OWN MONEY THAT'S LARGE ENOUGH TO DO A COURTHOUSE AND A JAIL ON? THAT WAS THE SECOND THING THAT CAME OUT. AND THEN THE THIRD THING THAT REALLY, UM, WELL THOSE WERE THE TWO MAIN THINGS. AND THE THIRD THING WAS, IS THAT WE NEEDED TO TRY TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW TO REDUCE THE COST OF THIS, WHETHER IT BE PHASED OR JUST SOME DIFFERENT THINGS. UM, THAT WAS A CONCERN OF JUST THE OVERALL DOLLAR AMOUNT TO PRESENT TO THE PUBLIC FOR, FOR A PACKAGE OR HOWEVER Y'ALL WANNA MOVE FORWARD. FINANCING. SO THOSE WERE THE, THE THREE TICKET ITEMS THAT KIND OF CAME OUT OF ALL THE CONVERSATIONS. LIKE I SAID, THERE WAS, NONE OF THESE CONVERSATIONS WERE, WERE NEGATIVE. EVERYBODY WAS, KNOWS THERE'S A NEED HERE. UM, THERE'S JUST SOME DISCUSSION NEEDS TO HAPPEN OF HOW THIS HAPPENS AND THE PROCESS GOING THROUGH NOW, UM, UNFORTUNATELY OR FORTUNATELY, EVERYONE LOOK AT THE COMMITTEES HAS WORKED ON THIS FOR A LONG TIME NOW, AND I THINK THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT MAYBE OF SHIFT IN DIRECTION. AND, UH, WE, THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS WE PROBABLY NEED TO TALK ABOUT. BUT, UH, THAT'S KIND OF THE, THE MAIN ITEMS THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT. I CAN GET AS SPECIFIC AS YOU'D LIKE TO, BUT, UH, GENERAL TERMS, THOSE ARE THE THREE ITEMS THAT CAME OUT OF MY DISCUSSION. SO ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? WELL JUST COMMENT. I THINK, I THINK DURING THE TIME THE COMMITTEE'S BEEN WORKING, THERE HAVE BEEN SOME THINGS HAVE CHANGED, UH, THAT, YOU KNOW, HAVE COME TO US. AND DURING THAT TIME, THE JAIL'S FILLED UP ABOVE CAPACITY AND WE'RE NOW PAYING TO SEND PRISONERS TO OTHER LOCATIONS. AND SO I THINK THAT BRINGS THE JAIL BACK INTO IT. AND, AND, UH, I THINK THAT'S, UH, SOMETHING THAT HAS TO BE THAT, THAT HAS TO BE DISCUSSED, UH, UH, ABOUT WHAT THE PRESSING NEEDS ARE. AND OBVIOUSLY WE, I THINK WE'RE ADDING HOW MANY BEDS? I REMEMBER 12 BEDS THAT IN THIS ADDITION THAT WE'RE DOING SMALL ADDITION THAT'LL HELP IT JUST A LITTLE BIT. BUT RECOGNIZING THAT THE, THE JAIL POPULATION CONTINUES TO GROW, UH, OVER TIME, I FEEL LIKE WE HAVE TO ADD THE JAIL INTO THE MIX. SO THAT'S WHY, THAT WAS WHY I SAID, THAT'S WHY I TOLD YOU WHAT I SAID. YES, SIR. I'LL ADD TO THAT, UM, THAT, UM, WE, WE LOOK AT A COUNTY AS IT'S, IT'S KIND OF INTERESTING THAT WE'RE THE, I THINK WE'RE THE FOURTH, FIFTH, WHATEVER, JUST SAY THE TOP 10 BEST, FASTEST GROWING COUNTIES IN THE, IN THE NATION THAT, UH, WE KEEP HAVE TAP DOWN AROUND OUR NEEDS IN THE JUSTICE CENTER IS OBVIOUSLY THE ONE OF THOSE WERE QUITE SOME TIME WE WERE READY AND WANTING TO DO THAT AND ADDRESS THAT. UM, SO THE FACTOR IN THE JAIL, UM, IS BECAUSE WE, WE NEED TO STOP THE BLEEDING WITH ALL THE MONEY THAT'S GOING OUT AND, AND SENDING OUT THESE, BECAUSE AS SOON AS IT'S GONNA CONTINUE TO GET WORSE. AND SO EVERY TIME I GO MAGISTRATE, IT JUST SEEMS LIKE THOSE NUMBERS WERE GREATER AND GREATER AND GREATER. AND, UM, AND SO COMMISSIONER WALTER'S POINT THAT WE'RE PRIORITIZING [00:05:01] WHAT WE SHOULD BE DOING IS LOOKING AT WHERE THE NEEDS ARE. AND SO THE JAIL TO DO THE JUSTICE CENTER JUST AS SO WE CAN PASS THE BOND AND THEN LEAVE THE JAIL OUT OF IT, WHICH IS A DESPERATE NEED. UM, I, I THINK WE GO TO THE VOTER AND WE ARE STRAIGHT, STRAIGHT UP ABOUT WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE AND TAKE THE TIME NECESSARY. I DON'T THINK WE RUSH THIS INTO ANY SPECIFIC TIMEFRAME. WE TAKE THE TIME NECESSARY TO BE TRANSPARENT. WE MAKE SURE THAT THE, THE VOTERS ARE, ARE EDUCATED AND UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE BECAUSE IT HAS A RETURN EFFECT SAVING MONEY BECAUSE ONE, YOU, YOU CAN CONSOLIDATE INTO THE JUSTICE CENTER WHERE WE DON'T HAVE TO KEEP MAINTAINING ALL THESE DILAPIDATED BUILDINGS, UM, AS WELL AS THEN STOP THE BLEEDING ON HAVING TO SHIP OUT AND MOVE OUT INMATES TO OTHER COUNTIES, WHICH HAS COST A GREAT DEAL AMOUNT OF MONEY. SO I THINK WE TIE THOSE IN, BUT I THINK WE PUT IT IN A POINT WHERE WE'VE WAITED THIS LONG. I THINK WE TAKE THE TIME NECESSARY TO BE SURE TO EDUCATE THE VOTER AND THAT THAT WAS THE FEEDBACK, UM, WHEN YOU AND I TALKED AND I THINK MY COMMISSIONER CONLEY WAS THERE, BUT THAT, THAT'S KIND OF TO THE POINT. UM, THE NEEDS HAVE CHANGED WHERE WE HAVE LOOKED AT THIS AND PRIORITIZED WHAT THE NEEDS ARE AND WHERE THE MONEY IS GOING THAT WE DESPERATELY NEED AND ESPECIALLY AS WE GO INTO BUDGET. SO, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW. SO I, I DIDN'T MEAN TO, TO ELIMINATE JUSTICE CENTER. I MEAN ADD JU ADD JAIL TO IT, YOU KNOW, AND I, AND I KNOW THAT WE SAID, WELL, ITS GONNA BE SO MUCH MONEY WE, YOU KNOW, IT'LL SCARE PEOPLE OFF AND ALL THAT BUSINESS, BUT I THINK WE HAVE TO HAVE TO LOOK AT BOTH PROJECTS. YEAH. UH, AND PROBABLY RIGHT. FIGURE OUT HOW WE CAN MAKE THEM MORE ECONOMICAL AND AFFORDABLE SO THAT WE DON'T SCARE PEOPLE TO DEATH AND WE ASK FOR THE BA UH, BOND. WELL, AND TWO, WE'RE ONE OF THE LOWER, IF YOU LOOK AT 254 COUNTIES IN, IN THE STATE, WE'RE NOT ONE OF THE HIGHEST, YOU KNOW, FOR A COUNTY THAT HAS THE GROWTH WE HAVE THOSE NEEDS ARE OBVIOUSLY THERE. AND WE CAN THEN COME BACK TO THE, THE VOTER AND, AND EDUCATE THEM ON, THERE IS A RETURN ON THAT TO OFFSET SOME OF THE, THE INCREASE OF THE TAX THAT WE WOULD HAVE THAT WE'RE ASKING THEM FOR IS MAINTENANCE, YOU KNOW, ON WHAT WE'RE HAVING TO DO RIGHT NOW TO MAINTAIN THE BUILDINGS WE HAVE. WE GET CRITICIZED BY AN OLDER BUILDINGS, UH, I THINK THERE WAS A MONUMENTAL DECISION WE DID. IT'S GONNA REALLY HELP WITH THE, THE WEATHERFORD POLICE DEPARTMENT BUILDING, BUT WE CAN'T KEEP DOING THAT. WE NEED SOMETHING AND WE NEED TO MODERNIZE AND WE NEED TO PROGRESS TOWARDS THAT. AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT THE VOTER PUT US IN THESE CHAIRS TO DO. AND SO I THINK, I FEEL VERY CONFIDENT THAT JUST LIKE WHAT THE TRANSPORTATION BOND WAS, WE CAN EDUCATE THESE VOTERS. ONE, WE HAVE, WE WE'RE, WE'RE CREDIBLE. WE TOLD WE DO EXACTLY WHAT WE SAID WE WOULD ON THE TRANSPORTATION BOND BONDS, AND THAT'S THE PAST ADMINISTRATIONS AS WELL. SO I THINK WE CAN GO OUT THERE AND, AND I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF TRUST AND WE'RE ONLY 16% OF THEIR OVERALL TAX RATE ANYWAY, YOU KNOW, AND, UH, WE ARE THE JUSTICE SYSTEM OF THE COUNTY AND I THINK THAT, UM, WE GO TO THEM AND WE'RE VERY STRAIGHT UP ABOUT WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE ON THIS, DO THEM. WELL, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? AND THAT'S A QUESTION FOR US AND PERHAPS COMMITTEE TOO. UH, WHERE DO WE PROCEED FROM HERE? WE, WE, WE RECOGNIZE THE NEED. WE ALSO RECOGNIZE THAT WITHOUT THAT COMPLETE JUSTIFICATION THAT WE HAVE, THAT NONE OF THIS IS GONNA PASS PEOPLE, UH, PEOPLE ARE, WE'RE ASKING, WE'RE GOING TO BE ASKING PEOPLE AT SOME POINT TO INCREASE THEIR PROPERTY TAX RATE TO FUND THESE PROJECTS. AND THAT'S A, THAT'S A HARD THING TO ASK FOR. SO HOW DO WE PROCEED FROM HERE? DO WE, WE, WE CHARGE THE COMMITTEE TO GO BACK AND SAY WE NEED TO ADD THIS AND, UH, ADD THE JAIL TO THE PROJECT AND, UH, SEE WHAT WE CAN DO TO MAKE THE, THE WHOLE THING MORE ECONOMICAL, THE JUSTICE CENTER PORTION MORE ECONOMICAL. WE NEED TO FOCUS IN ON THE LOCATION OF, OF THE FARM. UH, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WOULD BE REQUIRED TO DO THAT. UH, BE IT ROADWAYS, UH, YOU KNOW, WATER, ELECTRICITY, AND ALL THOSE THINGS THAT ARE BE REQUIRED AND, UH, ASK THEM TO GO BACK. IS THAT THE, IS THAT THE PATH WE NEED TO FOLLOW? I'M, I'M ASKING THE QUESTION. YEAH. WE NEED TO DECIDE WHERE WE'RE GONNA PUT THE JUSTICE CENTER AND THE JAIL AND WE HAVE THE FARM. MM-HMM . WHY DO WE NEED TO BUY MORE PROPERTY? THAT'S WHY, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN PUSHING THAT FOREVER, BUT I, I, I THINK I CAN ANSWER WHAT THE COMMITTEE'S PROBABLY THINKING IS. WE WOULD, UH, PREFER IT TO BE MORE ACCESSIBLE. WE PREFER FOR IT TO BE MORE VISIBLE. [00:10:01] RIGHT. AND WE'D PREFER TO HAVE IT, UH, IN A LOCATION THAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IS WE TRIED THAT, BUT IT'S GONNA COST I UNDERSTAND, UNDERSTAND MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. I I UNDERSTAND THAT. I'M JUST, I'M JUST SAYING WE DO, WE NEED TO SET THE PARAMETERS FOR THE COMMITTEE, SAY IT'S GOING TO BE AT THIS LOCATION. I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE. WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO PICK A LOCATION. MY, I THINK THAT THE COMMITTEE WENT THROUGH A VERY TRANSPARENT AND VERY THOROUGH SITE EVALUATION, UM, AND CONDUCTED THAT STUDY AND HAVE ELIMINATED AND GONE DOWN AND, AND GONE DOWN THAT PATH AND SPENT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF TIME ON IT. AND WE'VE DISCUSSED IT HERE BEFORE THIS COURT SEVERAL TIMES. UM, MY PERSONAL OPINION, I THINK THAT IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE A JUSTICE CENTER AND WE'RE BUILDING ONE THAT I THINK IT DOES NEED TO BE ACCESSIBLE. THE SITES THAT WE'VE SPOKEN IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, UH, I STILL FEEL LIKE THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO HAVE IT. AND I THINK THE FACT THAT WE OWN THAT PROPERTY THAT'S DOWN ON 10 TOP AND IT'S DIFFICULT AND IT'S A CHALLENGE TO GET TO, UH, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT IS AN IDEAL LOCATION FOR A JUSTICE CENTER THAT'S REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT PARKER COUNTY DESERVES. THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. UM, A JAIL, I THINK IT'S AN IDEAL LOCATION FOR A JAIL. I THINK IT'S IN CLOSE PROXIMITY TO THE OTHER JUSTICE CENTER LOCATIONS WE'VE TALKED ABOUT. BUT I ALSO BEEN LOOKING AT THIS WITH A 50 YEAR, MAYBE EVEN FURTHER LOOKING DOWN THE ROAD FOR PARKER COUNTY AND FOR GROWTH. AND TO REFERENCE AND EXPAND A LITTLE BIT ON WHAT JUDGE DEAN HAD SAID. YOU KNOW, COMING IN HERE A COUPLE YEARS AGO, MY FIRST TERM AND NOTICING A LOT OF THE BUILDINGS AND A LOT OF THE DEPARTMENTS IN THE COUNTY WERE SPREAD OUT IN OLDER, LET'S SAY HIGH MAINTENANCE TYPE BUILDINGS. DEFINITELY NOT EFFICIENT. AND I SEE THE DRAIN AND I KNOW THE BUDGET WE HAVE TO ALLOCATE FOR UPKEEP THAT I KNOW THAT THERE'S DEFINITE GAIN AND LAND, IN MY OPINION, IS NOT GONNA GET ANY CHEAPER. AND IF WE'RE ABLE TO POSITION OURSELF AS A COUNTY FOR THE FUTURE AND FOR PEOPLE THAT ARE SITTING IN THESE CHAIRS AND HAVE ROOM TO EXPAND AT A, SAY A COUNTY, UM, NOT A CAMPUS, BUT FOR ROOM FOR ADDITIONS, THESE GUYS HAVE BEEN DESIGNING AND WORKING ON THIS JUSTICE CENTER AND VALUE ENGINEERING IT. SO IT WOULD BE EASY IN 10 YEARS WHEN THE COUNTY SAY, HAS DOUBLED THIS POPULATION THAT IT IS NOW, AND WE NEED TO ADD A FOURTH AND A FIFTH, UH, COURT, AND YOU HAVE TO EXPAND THESE, THAT WE CAN DO IT MORE EFFICIENTLY AT THAT TIME. I THINK IT'S GONNA PAY DIVIDENDS GOING FORWARD. SO IF WE LOOK AT, OKAY, WE SPEND A LITTLE BIT MORE NOW AS FAR AS THE SITE LOCATION, I THINK THAT IT'LL PAY DIVIDENDS AND PAY FOR ITSELF LONG TERM. THAT'S MY OPINION ON THAT. SO I THINK THIS IS A TOUGH SITUATION. I DON'T KNOW THAT ANYBODY HAS COME UP WITH A SOLUTION THAT EVERYBODY LOOKS AT AND GOES, OH MAN, THAT'S THE BEST SOLUTION BY FAR, AND IT'S GONNA MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY. UM, THIS ISN'T THAT TYPE OF ISSUE. THIS IS A COMPLEX, NUANCED ISSUE. WE HAVE A LOT OF DIFFERENT FACTORS TO BALANCE. WE HAVE IMMEDIATE COST. WE HAVE FOLKS THAT ARE FEELING OVERBURDENED AND CRUSHED BY PROPERTY TAXES. WE HAVE UNCERTAINTY IN THE NATIONAL ECONOMY. WE HAVE, UM, WE HAVE A LOT OF THINGS THAT ARE GOING ON. AND SO WHEN IT'S SOMETHING LIKE THIS, MAYBE IT'S JUST THE WAY MY BRAIN WORKS. I LIKE TO TRY TO MAKE IT AS SIMPLE AS POSSIBLE AND CORRELATE IT TO SOMETHING ELSE. I DRIVE A 1989 FORWARD F-150. UM, THE REASON I DRIVE THAT IS BECAUSE I COULD PAY CASH FOR IT AND I DON'T LIKE CAR PAYMENTS. UM, IF HOWEVER, IT GETS TO THE POINT WHERE THE COST OF MAINTAINING THAT VEHICLE EXCEEDS THE COST OF A CAR PAYMENT, THEN IT'S NO LONGER PRUDENT OR FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE OR EVEN FRUGAL TO CONTINUE TO DRIVE THAT, THEN THAT BECOMES TO THE POINT WHERE I HAVE SAVED MYSELF INTO A BAD FINANCIAL SITUATION. THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW, NOT DELIBERATELY ON OUR PART, BUT THAT'S HAPPENING WITH [00:15:01] OUR JAIL WHERE WE ARE EXPECTING TO PAY MILLIONS MORE EVERY YEAR THAN THE PRIOR YEAR BECAUSE WE ARE OUT OF ROOM, WE'RE OUT OF BEDS, AND IT'S VERY EXPENSIVE TO SEND PEOPLE WHO ARE ARRESTED HERE TO OTHER COUNTIES. OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A SOLUTION THAT IS NOT TENABLE, WE CANNOT DO. AND THAT'S TELL THE SHERIFF, STOP ARRESTING PEOPLE WHO BREAK THE LAW. THAT'S NOT GONNA HAPPEN. WE'RE NOT GONNA DO THAT. WE'RE GONNA BE A LAW ABIDING COMMUNITY, SO WE GOTTA PUT THOSE PEOPLE SOMEWHERE. CAN'T SEND 'EM ANYWHERE FOR FREE. GOTTA FIX THE JAIL ISSUE. TO YOUR POINT, COMMISSIONER HALE, THIS IS A 50 PLUS YEAR DECISION. UM, I THINK AT SOME LEVEL WE HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO MAKE THE TOUGH DECISIONS, AND IF THERE'S A TOUGH MESSAGE TO TAKE TO VOTERS, THEN IT'S INCUMBENT ON US TO TAKE THAT TOUGH MESSAGE TO THEM, EXPLAIN TO THEM WHAT'S GOING ON, AND THEN TRUST THAT WE'VE GOT SOME WISE PEOPLE IN PARKER COUNTY AND ULTIMATELY THIS IS A DECISION THAT THEY GET TO VOTE ON. THIS ISN'T SOMETHING THAT WE'RE GOING TO OBLIGATE THEM TO TREMENDOUS AMOUNTS OF DEBT AND THEY HAVE NO SAY NO. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY GET TO VOTE ON. RIGHT. SO TO WRAP THIS UP, I I PROBABLY FALL ON THE SIDE OF COMMISSIONER HALE. UH, IF YOU GUYS HAVE ON THE COMMITTEE, HAVE SPENT A TON OF TIME GONE THROUGH ALL THE ANALYTICS, LOOKED AT THIS FORWARDS AND BACKWARDS, BACKWARDS AND FORWARDS. AND THE POOR FARM, WHILE IT'S A WHILE, IT'S ONE SOLUTION IS NOT PROBABLY THE BEST WHEN WE LOOK AT IT FROM A 50 YEAR STANDPOINT, BASED OFF OF THE INFORMATION Y'ALL HAVE PROVIDED. UM, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP OTHER OPTIONS IN MIND. THAT'S NOT TO ELIMINATE THE POOR FARM BY ANY, BY ANY MEANS, BUT I DO THINK WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO LOOK AT OTHER SPOTS BECAUSE AN IMMEDIATE COST NOW THAT ADDS UP TO A BUNCH OF OTHER COSTS OR AN IMMEDIATE SAVINGS. NOW THAT ADDS UP TO A LOT MORE COSTS LATER ON. KIND OF HOW WE UNINTENTIONALLY AND THROUGH NO FORESEEABLE FAULT GOT INTO THIS, WE, WE'VE GOTTA GET OUT OF THAT MODE, IN MY OPINION. WELL, YOU LOOK AT OBSTACLES AND WHAT ARE THEY, UH, ONE OF THE OBSTACLES IS THAT THE LOCATION THAT Y'ALL CAME UP WITH MM-HMM . IS NOT A POSSIBLE LOCATION FOR A JAIL. CORRECT. THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE AT THE SAME PLACE. YEP. AND SO THAT THAT ECONOMY GOES AWAY, UH, AND THAT THAT HAS THEM BE IN TWO DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. YEP. I UNDERSTAND THAT. UH, UH, BUT THAT IS, THAT IS A, THAT IS A PROBLEM IN SOME PEOPLE'S EYES, THAT THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE TOGETHER, THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE IN PRO CLOSE PROXIMITY SO THAT YOU CAN, UH, STILL HAVE TO TRANSPORT PRISONERS, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, ALL THOSE THINGS. WE, WE GET ALL THAT. YEP. UH, WE JUST HAVE TO ACCEPT THAT AND GO ON IF THAT'S THE LOCATION THAT, THAT THE COMMITTEE PREFERS. AND, UH, IF THAT'S WHERE IT'S GONNA BE, IF THAT'S THE PREFERRED LOCATION WITH, FOR ALL THE REASONS THAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT, THEN LET'S GO FORWARD WITH THAT AND HAVE THEM AT DIFFERENT LOCATIONS. AND, UH, UH, I I I THINK EVERYBODY'S AFRAID OF, UH, HAVING A BOND ELECTION GO FORWARD AND NOT, NOT PASS. I THINK THAT'S THE FEAR THAT EACH OF US LOOK AT AND KNOWING ALL THE THINGS AND ALL THE, ALL THE, UH, NEGATIVE NEGATIVITY THAT COMES WITH THAT. HOWEVER, IF IT'S THE BEST DECISION AND IT'S THE BEST DECISION LONG TERM, THEN LET'S GO FORWARD WITH THAT. AND THEN IF, IF WE SCAN OUR KNEE, WE GET UP AND PUT SOMETHING, PUT A BANDAGE ON IT AND GO AGAIN, IT'S UNFORTUNATE. BUT THAT, THAT'S, UH, I, I, I DO DEFINITELY THINK THAT IF WE, UH, WHEN WE GET TO IT, THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME OPTIONS, UH, AND, AND LET LAY THOSE OUT AND GIVE THE VOTERS SOME OPPORTUNITY TO, TO MAKE DECISIONS INSTEAD OF IT BEING ONE, ONE GIANT PACKAGE. THERE NEEDS TO BE SOME OPTIONS AND HAVE THE, AS FAR AS, UH, PUTTING IT OUT TO VOTE FOR MM-HMM . UH, THE JUSTICE CENTER AND THE JAIL. YES. I HAVE TWO SEPARATE VOTES. YES. SO I, I'VE GOT A QUICK QUESTION FOR US HERE ON THE COURT, AND I THINK I KNOW THE ANSWER, BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD CLARIFYING QUESTION. MAYBE IT'S FOR SOMEONE IN THE AUDIENCE AS WELL TO ANSWER. BUT JUST SO EVERYBODY'S ON THE SAME PAGE, BASICALLY, OUR POPULATION HAS INCREASED SUCH THAT WE ARE INCARCERATING ENOUGH PEOPLE DUE TO DUIS AND THINGS LIKE THAT, THAT WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH BEDS IN OUR JAIL. AND WHEN WE RUN OUT OF SPACE, WE THEN HAVE TO PAY OTHER LOCATIONS, OTHER COUNTIES TO HOUSE THOSE PRISONERS. LAST YEAR WAS THE FIRST TIME THAT WE REACHED OUR ORGANIC CAPACITY. IT COSTS ABOUT $250,000 PER BED AT MOST RECENT ESTIMATES TO BUILD A NEW FACILITY. IF YOU BREAK IT DOWN ON A BED BY BED COST, [00:20:02] THE, THE RUNNING RATE PER DAY VARIES BASED OFF OF WHERE WE SEND 'EM OFF TO, BUT IT'S SOMEWHERE AROUND A HUNDRED BUCKS A DAY THAT WE HAVE TO PAY TO SEND AN INMATE TO ANOTHER LOCATION. SO OBVIOUSLY WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING ABOUT THE JAIL BECAUSE THAT ADDS UP TO MILLIONS OF DOLLARS A YEAR IF WE CONTINUE TO ENFORCE OUR LAWS, WHICH WE HAVE TO DO. UM, I DO HAVE A QUESTION THOUGH. ON THE JUSTICE CENTER SIDE, WE ARE GOING TO GET ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT AT SOME POINT. IT'S SIMPLY A MATTER OF WHEN THE STATE TELLS US, OR IS IT THE, IS IT THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT THAT TELLS US WHICH ONE TELLS US WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER COURT LEGISLATURE, TEXAS. THANK YOU. SO THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE WILL TELL US WE HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER COURT WHEN THEY TELL US THAT. I ASSUME WE DON'T HAVE THE OPTION TO SAY NO. IS THAT CORRECT? CAN YOU SPEAK? I I THINK IT JUDGE, JUDGE JUDGE Q, WE'RE ALL LOOKING AT YOU FOR WHAT? DO WE HAVE THE OPTION TO SAY NO, WHEN THE LEGISLATURE TELLS US YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT? LEGISLATURE DOESN'T TELL YOU THAT, YOU KNOW, ASK FOR IT. YOU ASKED. YEAH. OKAY. SO WE DIDN'T ASK FOR, BECAUSE WE HAVE NO PLACE TO PUT IT. RIGHT. I, THE, THE POINT I'M TRYING TO GET TO IS WE'RE, WE'RE OUT OF SPACE IN OUR JAIL, BUT WE'RE ALSO OUT OF SPACE IN OUR COURTS. I CALCULATED IT , MY COURT ALONE HAS 1800 CASES. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY MORE WAYS I CAN EXPLAIN THIS. SO I HEAR, I HEAR YOU ON THE NEED, AND I FIRMLY BELIEVE WE NEED ANOTHER COURT IN HERE. I'M GONNA GIVE A SPEECH AT THE END OF THE WEEK TO AN AUDIENCE WHO KNOWS THIS SUBJECT. THEY'RE GONNA BE ASTONISHED AT MY CASELOAD WHEN I TELL, SO HERE'S MY QUESTION FOR YOU, JUDGE. AT ANY POINT DOES OUR HAND GET FORCED? IS THERE A DROP DEAD LINE IN THE SAND DATE WHERE OUR HAND GETS FORCED ON ADDING ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT COMMISSIONER? I'LL BE HANDED WITH YOU. I THINK OUR SITUATION IS SOMEWHAT UNPRECEDENTED BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW OF ANOTHER PLACE THAT HAS BEEN THIS FAR BEHIND ON THIS SUBJECT. AND WHEN WE EXPONENTIALLY GET TO THE NUMBERS OF A POPULATION IN THE COUNTY, MULTIFAMILY, I'M SEEING WE'RE GONNA BE IN A SITUATION THAT WE CANNOT HANDLE OUR CRIMINAL CASES OR ANY OF OUR OTHER CASES. AND CANDIDLY, AND I'M, I'M GONNA BE BRUTALLY HONEST WITH YOU, IF WE GET TO THAT POINT, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE ATTORNEY GENERAL DOESN'T COME IN AND INTERVENE. I MEAN, I, I REALLY DON'T KNOW WHAT WOULD HAPPEN WITH THAT. YEAH. AND THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT IS CHARGED STATUTORILY WITH PROVIDING THE FACILITIES FOR THE OPERATION OF THE COURTS. THAT'S TEXAS LAW. AND IF THAT GETS TO THE POINT WHERE IT'S NOT PROVIDED, WHAT IS THE SOLUTION? I, I'M NOT REAL SURE, BUT, UM, THAT'S AN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. SO I DON'T, I WON'T GO OUT. I APPRECIATE IT. UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE IN A BAD ENOUGH SPOT THAT THERE'S NOT REALLY PARAMETERS SET UP BECAUSE NO ONE WANTED US TO GET THIS IN THIS TOUGH OF A POSITION TO BEGIN WITH. I WOULD SAY THAT SOME OF IT, THESE COURTS ARE BACKED UP. THE JAILS GET BACKED UP. IT'S COSTING US MONEY. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT EFFICIENCY AND LOOK AT IT THE SAME AS THE INTERSTATE OUT HERE AND WE'RE BEHIND THE EIGHT BALL WITH THE TRAFFIC FLOW. EVERYBODY COMING HERE, IT'S THE SAME PROCESSING AND MOVING. AND I KNOW THAT IF WE, WE GET ANOTHER COURT, IT LIGHTENS THEIR WORKLOAD AND IT FREES UP, OR IT ALLOWS MORE CASES TO BE PROCESSED AND IT'S GONNA SPEED UP AND BE MORE EFFICIENT. AND WE'RE GONNA SEE THAT ON THE JAIL AS WELL. YEAH. SO I KNOW HAVING BEEN INVOLVED IN LISTENING TO THIS JUDGE RIGHT HERE FOR A BUNCH, THE LAST YEAR, I'VE BEEN VERY EDUCATED ON THE STRESSES THAT THEY'RE DEALING WITH AND WHAT THEY'RE NEEDING IN ORDER TO DO A BETTER JOB AND BEING MORE EFFICIENT FOR THE PEOPLE HERE IN PARKER COUNTY. SO I CAN SIT HERE AND SAY THAT WITH NO QUALMS ABOUT IT, AS FAR AS THE JUSTICE CENTER NEEDING TO GO TO THE VOTE FOR THE PEOPLE AND I IN THE JAIL, I'M A HUNDRED PERCENT AS FAR AS KNOWING WE NEED TO, WE NEED TO PUT THAT OUT AS WELL. YEP. AND JUST TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE MORE CONTEXT, YOU CAN GO ONE COUNTY TO THE EAST. THEY HAVE MORE COURTS THAN THEY NEED . THEY, THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE JUDGES OVER THERE WITH [00:25:01] THREE OR 400 CASELOAD. AND SO THERE'S A LOT OF SITTING AROUND GOING ON AND SOME, BECAUSE THEY'RE JUST IN THE BUSINESS FOR THOSE KIND OF COURTS. AND WE ARE JUST MORE THAN A POLAR OPPOSITE. I MEAN, THIS IS ABSOLUTELY NOT HYPERBOLE. I'M TELLING YOU. IS THERE A, THIS IS NOT A WORLD I LIVE IN. SO IS THERE A STANDARD NUMBER OF WHAT'S A RECOMMENDED CASELOAD PER JUDGE? WELL, MR. GRESFORD, YOU, YOU HAVE 1800, THEY HAVE 300. THERE'S NOT A STANDARD NUMBER, BUT THERE IS A DISPOSITION RATE. AND CURRENTLY THE LEGISLATURE, AND TO SOME DEGREE THE EX THE SUPREME COURT DURING THIS LEGISLATIVE SESSION IS TALKING ABOUT DISPOSITION STANDARDS AND THESE DISPOSITION STANDARDS, IF THEY BECOME LAW, IF THEY'RE IMPLEMENTED EITHER BY THE LEGISLATURE OR BY THE SUPREME COURT, WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT IS THEY'RE GONNA SANCTION THE JUDGE IF THE JUDGE DOESN'T MEET THE DISPOSITION STANDARD. I HEARD THAT. WELL, I TELL YOU WHAT, I'M NOT GONNA SIT AROUND FOR THAT ABUSE, UH, BECAUSE I CAN ONLY DO WHAT I CAN DO AND THE DA CAN ONLY DO WHAT HIS OFFICE CAN DO. AND , I'M, I'M REALLY, I'M REALLY PROUD TO SOME DEGREE AS A RESIDENT OF THE COUNTY FOR THE AMOUNT OF WORK THAT THE, THAT THE PROSECUTORS DO IN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. THEY WORK THEIR REAR ENDS OFF TO KEEP UP WITH THINGS AND THEY NEED MORE PEOPLE AND WE DON'T HAVE A PLACE TO PUT 'EM. AM I WRONG? NO, YOU'RE RIGHT. . AND, AND IF THIS DISPOSITION RATE COMES INTO LAW, 'CAUSE THESE FOLKS IN AUSTIN, THEY DON'T CARE WHETHER WE GOT FACILITY OR NOT BECAUSE THEY'RE ASSUMING THAT THE COUNTY HAS THE FACILITIES. THEY'RE ASSUMING THAT THE COUNTY HAS ENOUGH COURTS WHEN THEY SET THESE DISPOSITION STANDARDS. C CAN I INTERJECT? YES, SIR. I WAS IN A ZOOM MEETING THIS MORNING WITH, WITH TAC AND AUSTIN AND THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS BILL AND THEY WERE ALSO SAYING THAT AT THE MOMENT IT'S AN UNFUNDED, IF, IF IT PASSES AT THE MOMENT, IT'S AN UNFUNDED MANDATE ON THE COUNTY. YEAH. SO, SO WE'RE NOT GOING TO, AT THE MOMENT, WE'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO RELY ON THE STATE SENDING FUNDS TO HELP THE COUNTY TO BE ABLE TO INCREASE THE PROCESSING OR THAT'S RIGHT. YEAH. AND, AND YOU KNOW, IT'S TYPICAL THINGS WE SEE OUTTA AUSTIN. I THINK WE ALL KIND HAVE THE SAME POINT OF VIEW ON THAT. YOU KNOW, ONE SIZE DOESN'T FIT ALL. AND, AND WE'RE GOING TO GET INTO THAT ONE SIZE FITS ALL SITUATION, IF I CAN TOO. AND I, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, UH, PREVIOUSLY IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT THE PUBLIC NECESSARILY KNOWS. UM, AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE REALLY NEED TO PUT OUT THERE, BUT THE, UM, INCREASE IN CASES YEAR OVER YEAR ON THE CRIMINAL SIDE OF THINGS, AND THIS IS DIRECTLY RELATED TO THE JAIL POPULATION THAT Y'ALL WERE TALKING ABOUT. UM, WE, IN, IN CALENDAR YEAR 2024, WE HAD 1,313 INDICTMENTS FILED IN OUR COUNTY. UH, WE HAD NEVER EXCEEDED SOMEWHERE AROUND 1200 BEFORE, BUT THAT WAS KIND OF ON A HIGH YEAR. UM, THE, THAT WAS THE, THE 1313 FROM LAST YEAR WAS AN INCREASE OF 17 POINT SOMETHING PERCENT OVER WHAT WE'D HAD IN BOTH 2023 AND 2022. A ONE YEAR INCREASE OF 17%. I THINK OVER OUR HIGH WATER MARK, IT'S ABOUT 8%. UM, EITHER WAY, THAT'S A HUGE YEAR OVER YEAR INCREASE. AND, UM, AND I I, I'VE TALKED WITH JUDGE QUISENBERRY ABOUT THIS, I THINK WE, WE HAVEN'T SEEN ALL OF THAT BACKLOG TO OUR TRIAL DOCKET JUST YET, BUT THAT'S GONNA BE, THAT'S GONNA START HURTING US IN THE NOT TOO DISTANT FUTURE. AND YOU KNOW, THERE'S, THERE'S A FEW WAYS THAT THE JUSTICE SYSTEM CAN HANDLE THAT. OBVIOUSLY IF YOU INCREASE THE NUMBER OF COURTS, YOU CAN HANDLE MORE CASES. UM, THAT IS THE TRADITIONAL WAY OF DEALING WITH AN INCREASE IN CASELOAD. UM, YOUR OTHER WAYS OF DEALING WITH IT ARE NOT IDEAL. UM, EITHER BACKLOGS ON YOUR TRIAL DOCKET, UM, MEANING DELAY JUSTICE FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE. UM, OR YOU, FROM OUR END OF THINGS, YOU START CUTTING RECOMMENDATIONS. UM, OUR OFFICE HAS ALWAYS BEEN VERY AGGRESSIVE AND VERY TOUGH ON CRIME. UM, I DON'T THINK THAT'S A PLACE THAT WE WANT TO GO. SO, UM, WE, WE'VE ALWAYS TAKEN A PRETTY TOUGH STAND ON ON CRIME, ESPECIALLY VIOLENT CRIME, HABITUAL OFFENDERS, THAT SORT OF THING. UM, BUT YOU CAN MOVE THOSE CASES. YOU JUST HAVE TO GIVE 'EM SWEET DEALS. WE DON'T WANT TO DO THAT. UM, I DON'T THINK OUR COMMUNITY WANTS US TO DO THAT. I DON'T THINK THE TAXPAYERS HERE WANTS TO DO [00:30:01] THAT. AND SO I DON'T VIEW THAT AS A VIABLE OPTION. UM, SO OUR, OUR ANSWER AS THE JUDGE MENTIONED EARLIER, UM, IS, IS NOSE TO THE GRINDSTONE, KEEP POUNDING AWAY WORKING HARD 'CAUSE THAT'S ALL WE CAN DO. UM, I WILL TELL YOU COMMISSIONER COLT, UH, HOLT, TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION A LITTLE MORE DIRECTLY, IF THE LEGISLATURE TELLS YOU YOU HAVE TO HAVE ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT OR YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT, THEN YOU HAVE ANOTHER DISTRICT COURT AND IT'S UP TO THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT TO FIND A PLACE TO PUT IT, UM, THAT WOULD BE YOUR JOB TO FIND THAT COURT A HOME, UM, OFFICE FOR THE JUDGE, OFFICE FOR COURT STAFF, UM, AND THAT SORT OF THING. GENERALLY, TRADITIONALLY THAT'S NOT DONE UNLESS THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT, UM, OR SOME LARGE GROUP OF THE COUNTY, UH, REQUESTS SUCH A COURT BE ESTABLISHED. UM, SO I THINK THERE'S BOTH THE LEGAL AND THE PRAGMATIC. UM, SO I JUST WANT TO ADDRESS THAT FOR YOU. I WOULD LIKE TO SAY A COUPLE OTHER THINGS, 'CAUSE Y'ALL ARE KIND OF WORKING ON THIS TODAY. FROM THE FEEL OF THE COURT, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S AT LEAST A COUPLE PEOPLE THAT REALLY WOULD REALLY PREFER TO SEE THIS OUT ON THE COUNTY FARM. UM, IF THAT IS THE, THE WILL OF THE MAJORITY OF THE COURT AND THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE, IT WOULD BE HELPFUL TO KNOW THAT ON THE COMMITTEE SIDE OF THINGS. UM, IF THAT'S JUST WHERE Y'ALL DEFINITELY WANT IT TO BE, THEN SO BE IT. I MEAN, Y'ALL SPEAK ON BEHALF OF THE, THE COUNTY. Y'ALL ARE THE ONES LOOKING TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS. UM, IF YOU'RE NOT TO THAT POINT OR IF YOU DECIDED THE OTHER DIRECTION, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL TOO. ANY KIND OF GUIDANCE WOULD BE GREAT. UM, FROM THE COMMITTEE SIDE OF THINGS. SO I KNOW THAT'S AN EXECUTIVE SESSION THING BECAUSE THAT DEALS WITH, UH, POTENTIALLY ACQUISITION OF REAL PROPERTY AT SOME POINT NOW OR IN THE FUTURE. UM, BUT IF Y'ALL ARE AWARE, YOU CAN MAKE THAT DECISION NOW BASED ON WHAT WE'VE TOLD YOU, THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL TO THE COMMITTEE. YEAH. WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION ON WHERE TO PUT IT. WELL, I, I DO THINK, AND, AND COMMISSIONER CONLEY TO YOUR, TO YOUR POINT, I DO THINK THAT THAT HELPS PEOPLE ENVISION WHAT WE'RE ASKING THEM TO VOTE ON ULTIMATELY WITH THE BOND. UM, SO I, I KNOW THAT'S ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT WE TALKED ABOUT PREVIOUSLY. UM, BUT YOU CAN DO IT EITHER WAY. UM, SO THE OTHER THOUGHT I HAVE IS OUR COMMITTEE THAT WAS ORGANIZED WAS ORGANIZED AS THE JUSTICE CENTER COMMITTEE, OR I DON'T REMEMBER THE EXACT NAME OF THE COMMITTEE, BUT, UM, WE WERE PUT TOGETHER TO PUT TOGETHER A JUSTICE CENTER. WE DON'T HAVE THE PEOPLE ON OUR COMMITTEE TO DO THE JAIL. OBVIOUSLY THAT HAS TO INCLUDE THE SHERIFF AS WELL AS WHOEVER HE DESIGNATES AND THINKS THAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE PERSON FOR HIS DEPARTMENT AND TO, UH, TO TALK ABOUT THE JAIL, TO DO THAT SIDE OF THE, UH, THE BOND. SO I WOULD ASK THE COURT, UM, TO GO AHEAD AND ADD MEMBERSHIP TO OUR COMMITTEE, OR ALTERNATIVELY, IF YOU CHOOSE TO SET UP A DIFFERENT COMMITTEE FOR THE JAIL, HOWEVER Y'ALL WANNA DO IT, BUT WE REALLY NEED THE MEMBERSHIP, UH, OF OUR COMMITTEE TO BE ADDED TO, OR ANOTHER COMMITTEE TO BE FORMED BECAUSE WE DON'T, WELL, WE CAN'T TELL THE SHERIFF, HEY, ALL THE, ALL THE JUDGES AND THE LAWYERS AND THE, AND THE CLERKS PUT TOGETHER A, A JAIL FOR YOU, HOPE YOU LIKE IT. UM, THAT WOULDN'T BE APPROPRIATE. I KNOW Y'ALL WOULD, Y'ALL WOULD NOT AGREE WITH THAT EITHER. SO, UM, WE WOULD ASK THAT YOU DO SOMETHING, UH, TO HANDLE THAT SITUATION. THE SITUATION IS WE KNOW THE NEED. WE, WE KNOW WHAT THOSE NEEDS ARE. WE, WE UNDERSTAND THAT, UH, WE'RE IN A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN GET THE VOTERS TO UNDERSTAND AND TO APPROVE. AND YOU'RE ASKING THEM FOR A TAX IN, YOU'RE ASKING THEM TO INCREASE THEIR TAXES FOR SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE HERE. UH, AND AT THE END OF THE DAY, IF WE DON'T MAKE A GOOD ENOUGH ARGUMENT, BUT, BUT TELLING THEM WE HAVE TO HAVE IT IS NOT THE, IT'S TELLING THEM THE ADVANTAGES TO US AND THE COST SAVINGS THAT WE CAN HAVE OVER TIME BY GETTING A TAX INCREASE NOW BY PAYING FOR IT NOW RATHER THAN LATER. THOSE ARE THE THINGS WE HAVE TO TELL, TELL THE VOTERS. AND IF WE DON'T, WE DON'T DO A GOOD ENOUGH JOB OF THAT, THEN THEY'LL COME BACK AND SAY, THERE'S NO WAY I'M GOING TO RAISE MY TAXES FOR, FOR A JAIL OR A JUSTICE CENTER. WE HAVE TO GIVE THEM ALL THE REASONS, NOT WHY WE HAVE TO DO IT, BUT WHY IT'S COST SAVINGS OVER TIME FOR THAT 50 YEAR PERIOD, COMMISSIONER THAT, THAT WE WILL SAVE THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY. 'CAUSE MOST OF THOSE PEOPLE ARE THINKING ABOUT TODAY AND PAYING THEIR TAXES THIS YEAR. SO THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO TELL THEM THAT I UNDERSTAND ALL OF THOSE REASONS, AND IF WE DON'T, IT WILL FAIL. LET ME, IF I MIGHT ADD ONE THING, TWO OF THE ISSUES THAT HAVE COME OUT OF THIS ARE COST OVERALL THE BOND OR THE, THE TOTAL COST OF PROJECT AND OBVIOUSLY THE SITE. YEP. AND THOSE TWO ARE KIND OF CORRELATED TOGETHER. UM, I DO AGREE WITH ALL THE COMMENTS HERE THAT THE COURT NEEDS TO PICK A SITE AND, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I'M TRYING, IF I'M KIND OF BEING BLUNT DOWN HERE. YOU'RE, BUT WE'VE, I, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, PLEASE [00:35:01] ASK QUESTIONS. BUT NAILING DOWN A SITE DOES SEVERAL THINGS. IT, IT'S OBVIOUSLY A GOOD EDUCATIONAL STARTING POINT OF TALKING AND EVERYTHING ELSE WHILE WE'RE DOING THIS, AND WHICHEVER SITE Y'ALL CHOOSE, IT DOESN'T MATTER AS LONG AS WE KNOW WHERE IT IS. THE SECOND THING IT ALLOWS THE DESIGN TEAM, THE CONSULTANT THAT YOU'VE HIRED TO DO, IS TO REALLY START LOOKING AT THOSE OPTIONS ON THAT SITE. FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT NOW WE'VE GOT UNDERGROUND PARKING BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL BUILDING WAS DESIGNED TO GO DOWNTOWN. IF WE HAVE A SITE THAT HAS ADEQUATE ACREAGE, THAT PARKING CAN COME OUT FROM UNDER THE BUILDING AND SAVE A LOT OF MONEY. BUT UNTIL THAT SITE IS DEFINED, WE DON'T KNOW. IT'S HARD. YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING COST ESTIMATES THAT ARE BASED OFF OTHER PROJECTS OFF SQUARE FOOTAGE, AND THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOOD, BUT YOU'VE ALSO ASKED US TO REDUCE THAT COST AND WE CAN'T REDUCE THAT COST IN GOOD FAITH AND GO OUT TO BOND AND THEN BE SHORT ON THE DOLLAR AMOUNT, DOLLAR AMOUNT BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE THE BUILDING'S GOING. SO THEY'RE, THEY ARE VERY DIRECTLY TIED TOGETHER. AND I KNOW YOU CAN'T MAKE THAT DECISION TODAY, BUT THAT'S THAT. I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS THAT THE SITE IS CRITICAL IN THIS PROCESS IF WE'RE GONNA REDUCE MONEY. NOW, IF YOU JUST WANNA SAY WE NEED HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS, WE CAN DESIGN A COURTHOUSE OR WHOEVER DOES THIS ANYWHERE, BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M HEARING FROM THIS COURT. WHAT, WHAT I NEED TO KNOW TO MAKE THAT DECISION IS WHAT IT'S GONNA COST TO GET UTILITIES TO EITHER, EITHER LOCATION, WHAT IT'S GONNA COST TO GET A ROADWAY TO EITHER LOCATION, WHAT ARE THE ADVANTAGES AND DISADVANTAGES OTHER THAN THE ONES WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT. UH, SO THOSE ARE THINGS THAT, THAT PLAY, THAT COME TO PLAY. I MEAN, ARE WE TALKING ABOUT 10 MILLION MORE DOLLARS FOR ONE SITE THAN THE OTHER? I KNOW ON THE SITE SELECTION CRITERIA THAT WE UTILIZED THE 10 TOP ROAD, UH, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE HAVE ANY OF THOSE PROFORMAS OR THE NUMBERS. IT WAS LAST, IT WAS LAST, IT SCORED VERY LOW MARKS. BUT I KNOW THAT THE COST TO BRING UTILITIES DOWN 10 TOP AND GET 'EM TO THAT SITE WAS VERY EXPENSIVE. I KNOW THAT THE ROADWAY NEEDED QUITE A BIT. MM-HMM . UH, OF IMPROVEMENTS. THERE WAS A LOT OF EXCAVATION AND DIRT WORK THAT WAS NECESSARY. MM-HMM . WHEN COMPARED TO THE OTHER LOCATION THAT WE'VE SPOKEN ABOUT, WHICH WAS RELATIVELY FLAT, MUCH CLOSER TO UTILITIES, THINGS OF THAT NATURE THAT I DON'T REMEMBER IF IT WAS A WASH ON BRINGING THE UTILITIES DOWN TO THE PORT, TO THE POOR FARM VERSUS THE OTHER FIRST SITE, SECOND SITE. I GOTTA BE REAL CAREFUL WHAT I SAY HERE, BUT, WELL, I'D LIKE TO SEE WHAT IT'S GONNA COST FOR BOTH SIDES. YEAH. I, I WANT TO ADD SOMETHING HERE THAT WE'RE KIND OF JUST, I DON'T THINK FIVE YEARS AGO THAT PEOPLE REALIZE THE DENSITY, I KNOW ON THE RTC THAT, YOU KNOW, IT KIND OF CAUGHT THEM OFF GUARD JUST AS QUICK AS FIVE YEARS AGO THAT WE WERE GONNA HAVE THE GROWTH THAT WE'RE GONNA HAVE. UH, I KNOW 10 YEARS AGO THEY HAD NO CLUE. AND, UH, WE'RE GROWING AT AN EXPONENTIAL RATE OF ABOUT 30 TO 35 PEOPLE A DAY MOVING TO PARKER COUNTY. BUT THE, THE WAY WE LOOK AT PARKER COUNTY TODAY IS NOT THE WAY WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT. WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT AS WHAT IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE TOMORROW, THEN SEE THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GROWING HERE, THE COSTCO THAT'S COMING IN THE FUTURE, HEB IS WHERE'S IT, WHERE'S, WHERE'S THAT GROWTH AT? IT'S ON THE SOUTH SIDE. AND SO THE WAY WE LOOK AT IT TODAY IS THE POOR FARM IS WAY OUT IN THE BOONIES. IT'S WAY OUT THERE. BUT I THINK IF YOU FACTOR IN THE GROWTH THAT WE'RE HAVING, LET'S LOOK AT THIS FROM A STANDPOINT OF WHERE THE DENSITY AND THE GROWTH IS HAPPENING. THAT WHERE WE, AT ONE POINT, AND I DID THOUGHT THE EAST ANNEX WAS OUTRAGEOUS BECAUSE THAT'S AT THE EDGE OF THE COUNTY, WHICH WILL EVENTUALLY GROW INTO THIS AND BE A GREAT SPOT AND IS A GREAT SPOT FOR A JUSTICE SYSTEM TO BE OUT THERE. I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS FROM A STANDPOINT OF WHAT THE FUTURE LOOKS LIKE FROM THE DENSITY THAT'S COMING AS ONE OF THE TOP 10 FASTEST GROWING COUNTIES IN THE NATION. IS IT THAT FAR OUT? YOU'VE GOT PROXIMITY TO WEATHERFORD. AND IN TALKING TO WEATHERFORD, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE CASE NOW, BUT THEY WERE VERY COOPERATIVE IN WORKING WITH US ON THE UTILITIES AND WATER AND THE THINGS THAT WE NEED TO GET THEM TO GET OUT THERE. THERE'S ALSO ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES WORKING WITH THE COLLEGE. JOHN, I'VE TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THAT. 'CAUSE I WAS ADAMANTLY AGAINST THAT AT FIRST, AND THEN THE MORE I LEARNED ABOUT IT AND LOOKED AT IT, I MEAN, IS THAT REALLY, IF YOU LOOK AT IT IN TODAY, YES. IT'S, IT'S OUT THERE AND THE DENSITY IS NOT OUT THERE, BUT IT'S JUST A MATTER OF TIME BEFORE THAT HAPPENS BECAUSE WHERE'S THE GROWTH GOING? YOU GOT AN HEB GOING OUT THERE, YOU GOT YOUR COSTCO THAT'S ALREADY FINISHED AND UP IN BUSINESS. BUT LET'S LOOK AT THIS THING DOWN FROM A STANDPOINT OF WHAT TOMORROW LOOKS LIKE, WHAT FIVE YEARS LOOKS LIKE, 10 YEARS LOOKS LIKE BECAUSE [00:40:01] WE HAVE THE LAND. AND IT ALSO SENDS A MESSAGE TO THE VOTER THAT WE'RE PUTTING SKIN IN THE GAME BY USING OUR LAND. AND THE, IT'S A GOOD POSSIBILITY OUT THERE BECAUSE YOU HAVE THE LAND TO PUT A JAIL ON. YOU HAVE ALL THESE THINGS. WE HAVE CONTROL OF THAT. WHEREAS BEFORE WITH EAST ANNEX FORT WORTH WAS INVOLVED, THAT WAS KIND OF A MESSY SITUATION TO DEAL WITH, BUT WE WOULD BE IN CONTROL OF THAT. BUT I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT BECAUSE TO THE VOTER, WE HAVE SKIN IN THE GAME AND WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO TRY TO SAVE TAXPAYER MONEY. I THINK WE NEED TO JUST FACTOR IN EVERYTHING AND MAYBE GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD AND LOOK AT THIS TAKE, GET UPDATED NUMBERS, WHAT THE FEASIBILITY OF THESE THINGS ARE, AND REASSESS THIS. BUT I THINK, I THINK THE POOR FARM SHOULD BE LOOKED AT BECAUSE IT BRINGS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES, PARTNERSHIPS WITH WEATHERFORD COLLEGE. UH, IT DOES A LOT OF THINGS ALSO WITH THE RELATIONSHIP WITH WEATHERFORD AND, AND PARTNER WITH THEM ON THIS TO GET THIS DONE. AND I THINK THEY WOULD BE COOPERATIVE WITH THIS. AT LEAST THAT WAS THE LAST DISCUSSION I HAD. SO I DON'T, I DON'T THINK JUST AGAIN, UH, WHAT EXISTS RIGHT THIS MOMENT MAY NOT BE WHAT EXISTS TOMORROW AND IN WHERE THE FUTURE WROTE THIS. YES, SIR. I, UH, THE COMMITTEE MADE ITS RECOMMENDATION, JUDGE, WE SPENT THE BETTER PART OF A YEAR WORKING ON IT. I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY HOURS AND WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ARE THINGS THAT WE COVERED WITH THIS COMMITTEE. SO FRANKLY, I WANT TO KNOW IF THE COURT'S GONNA ACCEPT THE RECOMMENDATION OR NOT, BECAUSE WE SPENT A LOT OF TIME, THIS COMMISSIONER, THIS DISTRICT CLERK, THIS DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND I SPENT COUNTLESS HOURS ON THIS, AND YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THINGS THAT WE ALREADY COVERED. SO MY QUESTION WOULD BE, WHY DID WE EVEN HAVE THE COMMITTEE? IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO AT LEAST CONSIDER OUR RECOMMENDATION. WE DID CONSIDER RECOMMENDATION, THEN WE GOT PULLED OFF THE TABLE WHEN WE WERE GONNA DO IT RIGHT DOWN THERE ON SANTA FE DRIVE. WELL, I I THE COMMITTEE, UH, I'M A JUDGE. THAT'S A LAWYER. THAT'S A CLERK. WE'RE IN THIS BUSINESS. THIS HAS TO DO WITH OUR BUSINESS. PLUS WE HAD ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS, THAT'S THEIR BUSINESS. AND WE LOOKED AT EVERYTHING AS TAX PAYING CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY. MM-HMM . WANTING TO SAVE MONEY AND MADE OUR RECOMMENDATION, SPEND OUR TIME IN GOOD FAITH. AND FRANKLY, I THINK EVERYBODY ON THE COMMITTEE WOULD JUST SIMPLY WANT TO KNOW IF YOU'RE GONNA FOLLOW THE RECOMMENDATION OR NOT. BECAUSE WHAT THE COURT HAS TO, HAS TO AUTHORIZE IS A MONEY EXPENDITURE. THE COURT DOES NOT HAVE TO SET A LOCATION TODAY. YOU SIMPLY AUTHORIZE SUBMISSION OF THE MONETARY CONSIDERATION TO THE TAXPAYERS TO BUILD A FACILITY WHERE THE COURT DEEMS IT TO BE APPROPRIATE. WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WE DID PICK A SPOT AND THAT GOT TAKEN OFF THE TABLE. WE TOOK THE RECOMMENDATION OF YOUR COMMITTEE THAT WORKED SO HARD AND I COMMAND AGAIN, ALL THE MEMBERS OF THAT WAS ON THAT, ON THE COMMITTEE THAT ARE HERE TODAY. BUT THAT THEY HAD TAKEN OFF THE, THAT GOT TAKEN OFF THE FLOOR SO THAT THAT GOT REMOVED. HOLD ON A SECOND. AND THEN NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT SOME OTHER SPOT OUT THERE THAT THE, THAT WON'T ALLOW THE SECOND, THE NUMBER TWO SPOT, WHICH IS NOT GOING ALLOW, WHICH IS NOT GONNA ALLOW A JAIL. WE HAVE, WE HAVE CLEARLY ARTICULATED TO YOU THE NEEDS OF THIS COUNTY. AND NOW THAT HAS CHANGED BECAUSE OF THE NEEDS OF THIS COUNTY. WE'RE ASKING TO GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS AND REEVALUATE SITES NOT TAKING AWAY THE CREDIBILITY OF WHAT YOU GUYS HAVE DONE. AND AGAIN, I COMMEND EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU FOR DOING THAT, BUT IT IS NO LONGER THE SAME SITUATION THAT IT HAS BEEN BEFORE BASED ON THE NEEDS THAT WE HAVE WITH THE JAIL. SO WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, SIR, WE DID TAKE THE RECOMMENDATIONS THAT YOU HAD, BUT THAT THINGS HAVE CHANGED TO THIS SITUATION NOW THAT, UH, IS REALLY PUTTING US IN A SITUATION TO GO BACK AND REEVALUATE AND REASSESS WHAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE WITH. AGAIN, WITH ALL DUE RESPECT, WELL JUDGE, HOW WOULD I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE JAIL SITUATION AS A FELONY JUDGE? THAT'S JUST NOT TRUE. I KNOW FULL WELL WHAT THE SITUATION IS AT THE JAIL AND I HAVE FOR YEARS. I ALSO KNOW FULL WELL THE SITUATION WITH THE PRISON SYSTEM IN THIS STATE THAT ISN'T PROPERLY BEING ADDRESSED. I KNOW ALL OF THAT ALREADY. I'M IN THE BUSINESS AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE. WE'VE ANTICIPATED THIS COURT WOULD AUTHORIZE SOME MONETARY EXPENDITURE THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE 10 YEARS AGO, 20 YEARS AGO. BUT NOW HERE WE ARE AND THAT'S ALL THE COURT HAS TO DO. AND THEN WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE DETAILS. [00:45:01] BUT WE'RE IN A CRISIS SITUATION. ALL I CAN TELL YOU, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE A VOTE FROM THIS COURT AUTHORIZING SUBMISSION TO THE VOTERS OF THIS ISSUE. PLEASE. SO TWO, TWO THOUGHTS COME TO MIND FOR ME. UM, I'M HEARING A LOT OF DISCUSSION TODAY ABOUT A LOCATION THAT WILL FIT A JAIL AND COURT. RIGHT NOW, OUR JAIL AND OUR COURT ARE NOT AT THE SAME LOCATION. CORRECT. OUR JAIL AND OUR COURT DO NOT HAVE TO BE AT THE SAME LOCATION. WOULD THAT BE IDEAL? SURE. BUT OBVIOUSLY IDEAL ISN'T GONNA WORK. SO I THINK WE SHOULD KEEP IN MIND THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE COMMITTEE ON THE BEST LOCATIONS FOR A COURT AND SEPARATELY CONSIDER THE JAIL ASPECT. THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. UM, I THINK IN MY PERSONAL OPINION, THAT SUITS THE 50 YEAR PLUS ASPECT OF THE SITUATION IN THE BEST POSSIBLE MEANS. PERSONALLY, I THINK THE POOR FARM'S A GREAT SPOT FOR A JAIL, AND I THINK SOME OF THE OTHER LOCATIONS ARE A GREAT SPOT FOR A COURT SYSTEM. I THINK THAT'S MY PERSONAL OPINION. I I ALSO DON'T THINK THAT ANYTHING HAS MATERIALLY CHANGED THAT WOULD AFFECT THE SCORING SYSTEM THAT YOU GUYS USED. AND THE SCORING SYSTEM, AS I RECALL, IN TERMS OF A LOCATION FOR A COURT BUILDING, INDICATED THAT THE POOR FORM WAS AT THE VERY BOTTOM, IF I RECALL CORRECTLY. UM, I, THIS IS NOT FUN, THIS IS NOT EASY, THIS IS TOUGH. BUT WE GOT ELECTED TO SERVE THE COMMUNITY AND SOMETIMES MAKE SOME VERY TOUGH DECISIONS. AND I THINK WE'VE GOT TO GO UP TO THE COMMUNITY AND SAY, GUYS, WE ARE GROWING LIKE CRAZY. AND SOMETIMES WITH GROWTH COMES SOME TOUGH CHANGES AND THIS IS WHAT IS NEEDED. AND IT'S, TO YOUR POINT, COMMISSIONER, I THINK YOU SAID IT VERY WELL, IT'S INCUMBENT ON US TO DO A VERY GOOD JOB OF EXPLAINING THE PRESENT NEEDS BECAUSE THESE AREN'T WANTS, THESE ARE NEEDS TO THE COMMUNITY. IF WE WANT TO HAVE A SAFE COMMUNITY WITH COURT SYSTEMS THAT CAN PROCESS BAD PEOPLE, PEOPLE WHO DO HORRIBLE, VIOLENT THINGS, AND WE WANT TO JAIL BIG ENOUGH TO KEEP PEOPLE WHO BREAK THE LAW WHERE THEY BELONG, THEN WE'VE GOTTA TAKE THAT MESSAGE TO THE COMMUNITY. THAT'S MY OPINION. I JUST WANTED TO SAY A FEW THINGS AND MAYBE MORE FOR THE PUBLIC WHO MIGHT BE LISTENING THAT WE'VE TALKED A LOT IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. AND, UM, WE HAVE DONE THE ANALYSIS REGARDING COST. THE COMMITTEE HAS LOOKED AT SEVERAL LOCATIONS, UM, BOTH WITH RESPECT TO A JUSTICE CENTER AND THE POTENTIAL FOR A JAIL. WE WERE NOT TASKED WITH PERFORMING A FULL EVALUATION WITH THE JAIL, BUT KNOWING THAT THAT WAS IN THE BACKGROUND AS A NEED, AND WE LOOKED AT ACQUISITION, ACQUISITION COST, WE LOOKED AT INFRASTRUCTURE COSTS AND THAT'S WHY WE HAD ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS ON THE COMMITTEE AS OUR CONSULTANTS OF WHAT WOULD BE NEEDED FOR EACH OF THOSE PROPERTIES. AND SO THERE IS INFORMATION AVAILABLE, UM, THAT WE'VE SHARED IN EXECUTIVE SESSION. AND IF WE NEED TO, UM, REVISIT THAT, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE. BUT I WANT FOR THE PUBLIC TO UNDERSTAND THAT, UH, WE DIDN'T JUST IGNORE THE POOR FARM THAT THE COUNTY ALREADY OWNS, THAT WE HAVE DONE THE ANALYSIS AND LOOKED AT THE LOCATION AND THE INFRASTRUCTURE COST TO BRING THAT FACILITY TO THAT PROPERTY. SO THAT WORK HAS BEEN DONE AND THAT INFORMATION IS AVAILABLE. WE DON'T NEED TO RESTART ON THAT, BUT IF IT'S THE WILL OF THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT TO LOOK AT BOTH A JUSTICE CENTER AND A JAIL ON THAT LOCATION, WE DO NEED SOME FIRM DECISIONS TO BE MADE SO THAT YOUR COMMITTEE AND YOUR CONSULTANTS AND POTENTIALLY AN EXPANDED COMMITTEE REGARDING A JAIL CAN MAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS, UM, TO MOVE FORWARD. BUT, UM, THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN POINT THAT THE COMMITTEE CAN GO UNTIL THIS COURT MAKES THOSE FINAL DECISIONS AND POINTS US IN THAT DIRECTION. BUT AS FAR AS NUMBERS, I DON'T HAVE THOSE ON ME TODAY. I AM SORRY. BUT, UM, THOSE NUMBERS HAVE BEEN LOOKED AT AND HAVE BEEN EVALUATED, UM, FROM THE EXPERTS IN ADVISING US WHAT THOSE COSTS WOULD LOOK LIKE. I WOULD LIKE TO COME BACK AND ADDRESS A FEW POINTS. THE, THE FIRST OPTION THAT WE ALL WANTED AND WE WENT TO THE CITY OF WEATHERFORD WITH THE JAIL COMPONENT, WAS A BIG FLY, AN OINTMENT FOR THE CITY. AND ONE OF THE MAJOR DETERMINING FACTORS ON WHY THEY DID NOT WANT THAT, THE JUSTICE CENTER LOCATED THERE. SO THAT'S THE, AGAIN, THAT'S THE JAIL COMPONENT WITH THEM BEING ON THE SAME LOCATION. I'M SORRY, CAN INTERRUPT ONE SECOND. SURE. WE NOT GO BACK TO THEM SAY, WOULD, WOULD REMOVE THE JAIL. WE, UH, WE MADE THAT CLEAR WHEN WE WERE [00:50:01] SPEAKING WITH THEM, BUT I REMEMBER MOST OF THE OBJECTIONS WHEN WE WERE IN THAT MEETING WAS REGARDING THE JAIL BEING THERE AND PEOPLE LIKE TO WALK THEIR DOGS BY THE PARK AND ON AND ON AND ON. AND THAT WAS A BIG PROBLEM EVEN WITH OUR, WITH OUR FOLKS THAT DESIGNED THE JAILS AND THEIR VISUALS SHOWING HOW IT COULD BE DONE, WHERE IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE A JAIL. I JUST WANTED TO POINT THAT OUT. UM, SECOND THE DOLLAR AMOUNTS IN THE INITIAL THAT, THAT WE'D BE LOOKING AT FOR A SITE FOR THE JUSTICE CENTER, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE COST OF THE, THE DIRT, IT'S A SMALL PERCENTAGE OF THE OVERALL COST. I MEAN, WE'RE TALKING THE FIRST LOCATION THAT WE LOOKED AT FOR DOWNTOWN WITH A PARKING GARAGE. WAS IT 30 OR 40,000 PER PARKING SPACE? IS THAT THE COST ON A GARAGE? 40, ABOUT 39,000 PER SPOT. AND YOU CAN BUY DIRT AND HAVE SURFACE PARKING. I MEAN THAT'S A, THAT'S A WASH ON A SITE LOCATION THAT WOULD BE PREMIER AND HAVE ROOM FOR EXPANSION AND GROWTH FOR THE COUNTY NEEDS FOR DECADES. THIRD, UH, I THINK AT THE JAIL PARKING DEVELOPMENT OPPORTUNITIES, I'VE SEEN IT IN THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT WORLD, MANY TIMES. IF THE COUNTY BOUGHT AND DEVELOPED THE REMAINING DIRT THAT'S AROUND THERE IS EXPONENTIALLY MORE VALUABLE AND THERE WILL BE MORE DEVELOPMENT TO YOUR POINT IN THESE CORRIDORS TOWARDS THE POOR FARM SOUTH OF 20. I FIRM BELIEVER IN IT. UM, THE OTHER THING WA AND WE TOUCHED ON IT EARLIER, WAS COUNTY ATTORNEY'S BUILDING. WE HAD THE, THE COUNTY DOES OWN A LOT OF BUILDINGS. THEY MAY BE A LITTLE ANTIQUATED AND DATED, BUT THEY'RE VERY VALUABLE TO OTHER ENTITIES AND PEOPLE AND COMMERCIAL DEVELOPERS. IT MIGHT BE BETTER USE FOR BEING ON THE SQUARE AND HAVING A MORE TYPES OF BUSINESS THAT GENERATE REVENUE AND SALES AND, AND LIFESTYLE AND OPPORTUNITIES FOR US IN THE COMMUNITY. MY POINT THERE IS THERE'S A LOT OF VALUE THAT WE'LL BE ABLE TO RECLAIM AS A COUNTY ON DISPOSITION OF THE EXISTING, ALL THESE DIFFERENT PROPERTIES WE HAVE SPREAD OUT EVERYWHERE TO GO BACK IN TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR PROJECT. AND LASTLY, I WANTED TO, I, I WANT TO EMPHASIZE THIS BECAUSE I, I HIT ON A LITTLE BIT EARLIER, BUT IT'S IMPORTANT TO ME. I THINK WE'RE PROUD OF THIS COURTHOUSE RIGHT HERE. AT LEAST I AM. I THINK WHEN YOU DRIVE DOWN HERE AT NIGHT AND THE LIGHTS ARE ON AND IT'S BEAUTIFUL, IT'S SOMETHING YOU CAN BE PROUD OF. I'M VERY, VERY BUDGET ORIENTED PERSON. I'M NOT LAVISH. I DRIVE AN OLD FLATBED TRUCK IN THE PARKING LOT RIGHT NOW, . BUT I REALLY WANT US TO HAVE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF AS CITIZENS HERE IN PARKER COUNTY. THAT'S MORE THAN SAY, A DRESSED UP METAL BUILDING DOWN OFF IN THE HOLE ON 10 TOP WHERE THE JAIL SITS, WHICH IS A GREAT LOCATION FOR THE JAIL IN MY OPINION. BUT I THINK SOMETHING THAT REPRESENTS THE PARKER COUNTY AT A RESPECTABLE LEVEL THAT WE CAN BE PROUD OF IS IMPORTANT. I JUST WANT TO MAKE THAT, 'CAUSE THAT'S FROM MIKE HALE, A PERSON THAT LIVES HERE IN A TAXPAYER AS WELL. I JUST WANT TO PUT THAT IN THERE. THANK YOU. WE CAN SIT HERE ALL DAY AND DISCUSS THE PLUSES AND MINUSES AND THINGS. YEAH. AND TO, TO SHEENA'S POINT, WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION. YEAH. WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION WHERE THE LOCATION'S GONNA BE AND OR MAKE A DATE THAT WE'RE GONNA COME BACK HERE IN A VERY SHORT TIMEFRAME AND SAY, OKAY, IT'S GONNA COST MORE THIS MUCH HERE, THIS MUCH HERE AND MAKE THAT DECISION THAT WORK'S ALREADY BEEN DONE. THAT THAT INFORMATION'S ALREADY OUT THERE. AND, UH, UH, I, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'RE EVER GOING TO COMPLETELY AGREE ON THAT, BUT THERE ARE GOOD POINTS MADE BOTH WAYS. JUDGE, JUDGE MADE POINTS, MR. CONLEY MADE POINTS. UH, THE, THE, THE COMMISSIONER HALE'S POINTS ARE, ARE VERY WELL TAKEN FROM SOMEBODY WHO'S BEEN ON THE COMMITTEE AND BEEN THROUGH, INVOLVED IN THE WHOLE THING. UH, SOMEBODY NEEDS TO TAKE ACTION, MAKE A MOTION, HE'LL GO UP OR DOWN AND WE'LL GO FORWARD FROM THERE IF YOU THINK THAT'S THE CORRECT [00:55:01] D DECISION TO HAVE THOSE IN SEPARATE LOCATIONS. ONE, ONE PLACE, ONE IN THE OTHER, MAKE THE MOTION AND LET'S GO FORWARD. OKAY. I'LL SECOND THE MOTION. OKAY. I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE MOTION THAT WE WORK, I GUESS WE WORK TOWARDS APPROVING A BUDGET TO GO TO VOTE. MM-HMM . FOR A JUSTICE CENTER ON, I'M TRYING TO THINK ON THE SITE SELECTION. 'CAUSE I DON'T WANNA SAY ANYTHING OUTTA LINE HERE. JUST NEEDS TO BE A SITE, A SITE DETERMINED BY THE COURT SITE, DETERMINED BY THE COURT AND FOR A SEPARATE JAIL THAT WOULD BE, I BELIEVE, TO BE LOCATED DOWN ON THE, ON THE POOR FARM. I SECOND THE MOTION. OKAY. SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND WHEN THE DISCUSSION PHASE, UH, JUST FROM THE STANDPOINT, I'LL REACH OUT TO SOME OF THE PEOPLE AND, UM, UH, THAT, THAT ARE CLOSE TO THIS, UH, JEFF, YOURSELF AND, AND OBVIOUSLY THE, THE JUDGE. UM, I, I WAS, AND I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO SAID THIS TO ME, BUT IN TALKING ABOUT HAVING SEPARATE LOCATIONS WHERE THE, THE JAIL AND THE, AND THE JUSTICE CENTER THEN CREATES ISSUES OF A, AS AS THEY SAID, A LIFE AND DEATH SITUATION WHEN YOU'RE HAVING TRANSPORTING CONTINUOUSLY FROM THE JAIL TO THE JUSTICE CENTER, UH, HOW VALID IS THAT, WOULD YOU SAY? I GUESS IDEALLY THE SHERIFF WOULD BE THE ONE TO TALK TO THAT, BUT IN, IN HIS ABSENCE, I GUESS I'LL TAKE A STAB AT IT. I THINK, UM, ONE OF THE, THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE NOW THAT WE WOULD NOT HAVE WITH A JUSTICE CENTER AND A JAIL SEPARATELY LOCATED, CURRENTLY THE JAIL IS TAKING INMATES TO THREE DIFFERENT BUILDINGS. UM, TWO OF THOSE BUILDINGS HAVE NO SALLY PORT SETUP WHERE PRISONERS CAN BE TAKEN IN WITHOUT HAVING TO WALK AROUND THROUGH THE PUBLIC. BOTH THE ANNEX WHERE WE HAVE JUDGE MARTIN'S COURT AND HERE IN THIS BUILDING WHERE WE HAVE JUDGE JOHNSON'S COURT, YOU'RE LITERALLY WALKING INMATES THROUGH EVERYONE ELSE TO GET TO COURT. UM, AND YOU KNOW, PEOPLE SAY, WELL, THOSE ARE JUST MISDEMEANOR INMATES AND THAT'S TRUE, BUT WE HAVE A LOT OF PEOPLE THAT ARE CHARGED WITH A LOT OF VERY VIOLENT OFFENSES AND ON A DIFFERENT DAY THEY'RE COMMITTING A MISDEMEANOR. UM, WE HAVE PEOPLE THAT HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH MURDER THAT HAVE TO GO TO COURT ON THEIR MISDEMEANORS AT THE SAME TIME THAT THEY'RE IN JAIL FOR MURDER. SO, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF A, A MISUNDERSTANDING OF THE NATURE OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND, AND PROBABLY WELL-MEANING, BECAUSE THERE IS DIFFERENCES, THERE ARE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MISDEMEANORS AND FELONIES, BUT YOU CAN'T ALWAYS MAKE THAT DECISION. SO I DO THINK IF YOU RUN THE, IF YOU, IF YOU SET UP THE, THE, UH, JUSTICE CENTER TO WHERE YOU HAVE SECURITY THERE, THAT CAN BE DONE WELL TO WHERE THOSE INMATES GO UP AND DOWN. AND, AND CHARLIE CERTAINLY WHOEVER, UH, HAS HELPED US WITH THIS, BUT THOSE INMATES GO, THEY COME IN, THEY'RE DOWN UNDERNEATH THE, IN, IN A SECURED AREA BENEATH THE COURT FACILITY. THEY COME UP AND DOWN THROUGH SEPARATE ELEVATORS DIRECTLY TO THE COURTROOM. THERE'S NO INTERACTION WITH THE PUBLIC. UM, AND WE DON'T HAVE THAT SET UP REALLY ANYWHERE, FRANKLY. JUDGE BERRY'S COURT RIGHT NOW, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE AN ELEVATOR THAT GOES UP AND THEY'RE SECURE FOR THE 43RD, BUT FOR THE FOUR 15 THEY HAVE TO WALK ACROSS THE HALL RIGHT THERE WHERE SOMETIMES YOU HAVE JURORS SITTING THERE WAITING FOR JURY DUTY. YOU HAVE LITIGANTS, YOU CAN HAVE VICTIMS, UM, AND JUST RANDOM MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC THAT EITHER ARE IN THE BUILDING OR JUST WANNA GET A PASSPORT, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S NOT A SECURE THING. SO IT'S, IT'D BE MUCH BETTER WITH A COURTHOUSE THAT WAS BUILT FOR THAT PURPOSE, UNLIKE THE, THE POST OFFICE DISTRICT COURTS BUILDING WHERE WE ARE FOR OUR FELONIES AT THIS POINT IN TIME. I WOULD SAY ONE THING TOO THAT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE Y'ALL ARE AWARE OF, 'CAUSE IT'S KIND OF AN ODDITY IN OUR LAW, UM, AS FAR AS WHEN BONDS CAN BE HELD, AND Y'ALL MAY BE AWARE OF THIS, YOU MAY NOT. I DON'T KNOW. BUT I, IN AN ODD NUMBERED YEAR, LIKE THIS YEAR, YOU CAN HAVE A BOND IN MAY OR NOVEMBER IN AN EVEN NUMBERED YEAR, LIKE NEXT YEAR. UM, IT'S ONLY IN NOVEMBER. SO, UH, WE ARE EITHER TO WHERE OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, NEXT MONTH IS NOT A THING, BUT UM, IT'D BE THIS NOVEMBER OR A YEAR FROM THIS NOVEMBER. YEAH. YOU CAN'T HAVE ONE IN MAY. SO JUST, YOU KNOW, TIMELINE WISE, I KNOW IT'S IMPORTANT FOR Y'ALL TO KNOW WHAT THE FACTS ARE AND THAT IS, THAT IS THE FACT UNDER OUR LAW. CAN Y'ALL REMIND ME WHEN THE, UH, COMMITTEE WAS FORMED? IT WAS JUST FOR THE RECORD, BETTER THAN A YEAR AGO. ABOUT A YEAR AGO. ABOUT A YEAR AGO. MM-HMM . SO EVEN THOUGH THIS IS GONNA BE NEW TO QUITE A FEW MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, AND IT'S GONNA SEEM LIKE WE'RE RUSHING THIS THROUGH THE COMMITTEE TO JUDGE Q'S VERY ELOQUENTLY PUT POINT, HAS SPENT INNUMERABLE HOURS FOR MORE THAN A YEAR [01:00:02] WITH THE JUDGE, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, DISTRICT CLERK, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY OUR INCREDIBLY HONORABLE COUNTY COMMISSIONER FROM PRECINCT FOUR. UM, THERE, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TIME AND EFFORT AND A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESEARCH PUT INTO THIS. SO EVEN THOUGH IT WILL APPEAR FRESH AND NEW, THIS IS NOT ANYTHING THAT WE HAVE RUSHED TO. EVEN THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT HERE IN EXECUTIVE SESSION HAS SPENT HOURS AND HOURS AND HOURS OVER MANY DIFFERENT SESSIONS. ABSOLUTELY. AND WE, WE DO A WHOLE LOT OF MEETING, UH, WORK BETWEEN MEETINGS, BUT WE'VE BEEN MEETING EVERY TUESDAY AT EIGHT IN THE MORNING FOR THAT WHOLE YEAR. AND I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY 14 MONTHS AT THIS POINT, 15 MONTHS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO, UM, BECAUSE THE COURT ALLOCATED THE MONEY TO HIRE THE ARCHITECTS, NOT THIS BUDGET, BUT THE LAST ONE BEFORE THAT. SO IT'S BEEN A LONG WHILE. SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I'M READY TO VOTE. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR, CARRIES THREE TO TWO. OKAY. SO THE NEXT DECISION I SEE THAT WE NEED TO MAKE IS WHETHER WE'RE GONNA HAVE A SEPARATE COMMITTEE FOR THE, THE JAIL OR WHETHER THEY'RE GONNA ADD MEMBERS TO THIS COMMITTEE FOR THE JAIL. AND I'D LIKE TO GET INPUT FROM THE COMMISSIONER HALE REGARDING THAT. UH, I BELIEVE WE ACTUALLY HAD SHERIFF INVOLVED EARLY ON, SO I DO BELIEVE THAT HE WAS ON OUR COMMITTEE INITIALLY. UM, YES, WHEN, WHEN, UM, WE HAD A, UH, A SMALL AUGMENT TO OUR CONTRACT TO DO A QUICK STUDY OF THE JAIL, UM, THE JAIL SIT SITUATION AND WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT WHERE WE GONNA PUT IT ON THE FIRST SITE. AND SO WE MET WITH THE SHERIFF AND THE FOLKS FROM LASALLE. AND SO AT A HIGH LEVEL, WE'VE, WE'VE ALREADY GONE DOWN THAT ROAD TO UNDERSTAND SOME OF THE BASIC ISSUES, BUT NOT GOTTEN INTO A LOT OF THE DETAIL. YEP. AND AS WE GO TOWARDS A BOND, WE'RE GONNA NEED, YOU ARE GONNA WANT MORE DETAIL TO GET A BETTER NUMBER ON THE, ON, ON THE COST. SO I THINK IF WE WERE TO AUGMENT MY OWN PERSONAL RECOMMENDATION IS THE FASTEST WAY WOULD BE TO AUGMENT WITH THE SHERIFF AND MAYBE MR. KING AND MAYBE OTHERS FROM LASALLE PICK UP WHERE WE LEFT OFF. AND START DIVING A LITTLE DEEPER INTO THE SITUATION WHILE WE HAVE YOU HERE. HOW MUCH ADDITIONAL MONEY DO WE NEED TO ALLOCATE TO, TO THIS ADDITION OF THE JAIL, TO THE COMMITTEE'S CHARGE? UM, YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, IT, I WOULD SAY IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TOTAL PICTURE, UM, IT WOULD PROBABLY BE 400,000 OR SO TO GET A SCHEMATIC DESIGN LEVEL DETAIL. WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO HAVE THAT NAILED DOWN TO A DEFINITE NUMBER BY THE NEXT COURT SESSION THAT WE HAVE CERTAINLY RECORDED A COUPLE OF WEEKS SO THAT WE COULD TAKE ACTION ON THAT AT THAT TIME? 'CAUSE THAT'S, UM, YEAH, BECAUSE I'D LIKE TO OUTLINE WHAT THE, WHAT THE DELIVERABLES WOULD BE AND WHAT THE SCOPE WOULD BE, JUST SO YOU WOULD UNDERSTAND CLEARLY WHAT IT WAS. AND, AND YOU COULD TWEAK THAT IF YOU WANTED TO, UP OR DOWN. AND I WOULD LIKE THE SHERIFF'S AND I WOULD LIKE THEIR INPUT AS WELL ON ANY ADDITIONAL MEMBERS THAT THEY MAY FEEL WOULD BE BENEFICIAL. SO, SO YOU WANT TO DELAY THAT UNTIL FOR TWO WEEKS TO OUR NEXT I THINK WE COULD, WE COULD GO AHEAD AND, OR THO UH, KING SHERIFF WAS AND KING HAD ANOTHER, I CAN'T REMEMBER OFF THE TOP OF THE HEAD, BUT THERE WAS ANOTHER HIS, BUT THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN AUTHORIZED GUARD. I MEAN, THEY'VE ALREADY BEEN APPROVED TO, TO DISCUSS. YES. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. THEY WERE ALL PART OF THE STUDY THAT WE THEN IF, IF THEY FEEL THEY WOULD BE IN THE COUNTY'S BEST INTEREST TO ADD ANOTHER ONE OR TWO, I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE PRUDENT THAT WE ADDRESS THAT AT THE NEXT COURT AS WELL. AND THAT COURT WILL BE MONDAY, MAY 12TH. MAY 12TH, SIR? YES. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. AND I, I THINK THAT, UH, AS WE MOVE FORWARD, WHETHER WE MAKE IT A FORMAL, UH, ACTION TODAY OR WHETHER WE DELAY, WE NEED TO BE, UH, FOCUSING IN ON THE NOVEMBER 20, 20, 25 DATE. YES. AND NO LATER THAN THAT. SO IF WE NEED TO FORMALIZE THAT, UH, TODAY, OR WHETHER WE FORMALIZE THAT AT THE NEXT COMMISSIONER'S COURT REGULAR MEETING, IT NEEDS TO BE IN PLACE BOND IN NOVEMBER, 2025. YEAH. THIS YEAR FOR THAT. HOW REALISTIC WOULD THAT BE IF EVERYTHING WAS APPROVED THAT YOU GUYS NEEDED MARCHING ORDERS IN MAY 12TH? UM, WE, UM, WE WOULD HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION BY THE TIME YOU HAD TO FILE TO BE ABLE TO START THAT EDUCATION PROCESS. THE FULL STUDY WOULD BE COMPLETE PROBABLY AFTER AUGUST. BUT YOU WOULD HAVE ENOUGH TO GET START THAT [01:05:01] EDUCATION PROCESS. I THINK THE, THE KEY IS THAT EDUCATION PROCESS OF WE'VE TA AS WE'VE TALKED BEFORE, BEFORE THE COMMISSION, IS HOW MUCH TIME DO YOU, DO YOU REALLY NEED TO, TO PREP THE PUBLIC? IS YOUR COMPANY CAPABLE OF, IS YOUR COMPANY CAPABLE OF DOING THE JAIL? OH YEAH. YEAH. DRAW UP AND ARCHITECTURAL. YEP. YES. YES, SIR. WE'VE, WE'VE DONE IT AT, UH, ALLISON COUNTY. NO, YOU DO THE JUSTICE CENTERS A LOT. YES, WE'VE DONE, AND SMITH COUNTY IS AS WELL. WE DID THE JAIL THERE AND WE'RE WORKING ON THE COURT COURTHOUSE THERE AS WELL. WE'VE GOT A LARGE DETENTION PORTFOLIO. MM-HMM . ABSOLUTELY. WHAT OTHER ACTION DO WE NEED TO TAKE? WELL, DO WE NEED TO TAKE AN ACTION NOW FOR THE FACT THAT WE'RE SHOOTING FOR THE NOVEMBER? UH, WELL, THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING. DO WE NEED TO DO THAT TODAY OR WOULD YOU RATHER DO THAT, UH, AFTER WE HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE? I THINK WE CAN PUT IT ON THE NEXT AGENDA. THE NEXT COURT? YEAH. ON THE 12TH. OKAY. COMMITTEE, DO Y'ALL HAVE ANY INPUT ON THAT? UH, IS THERE A MATERIAL DIFFERENCE AS FAR AS ANNOUNCING OR APPROVING A NOVEMBER ELECTION TODAY VERSUS MAY 12TH? DOES THAT, DOES THAT AFFECT Y'ALL IN ANY WAY? I DON'T KNOW THAT THE JURY AFFECTS US IN ANY WAY. I MEAN, SO IT ALL, IT ALL GOES BACK TO, IT ALL GOES BACK TO PREP TIME. YOU THINK YOU NEED TO EDUCATE THE PUBLIC? WELL, SOME, SOME, SOME BONDS TAKE LONGER THAN OTHERS. UNDERSTANDING THAT, UH, I, I, I THINK IF, UH, IF YOU DO YOUR WORK AND GET THAT TO US, I THINK THAT GIVES US ADEQUATE TIME. I'M GONNA MOVE THAT WE, UH, OKAY. UH, UTILIZE THE, UH, NOVEMBER, 2025, UH, ELECTION DATE FOR, FOR A BOND ISSUE FOR THE JUSTICE CENTER AND THE JAIL. SECOND, I HAVE A MOTION. AND SECOND, ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? AND THEY'RE GONNA BE SEPARATE VOTES. WE CAN DETERMINE THAT LATER, BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE, WE DON'T HAVE TO MENTION THAT NOW. WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO TALK ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S WHEN WE'RE GONNA DO IT. THAT'S ALL THE MOTION IS. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? NOPE. SORRY. CURIOUS FABO, I THINK ANY OTHER ACTION THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CAN TAKE PLACE AT OUR NEXT REGULAR SESSION OF COMMISSIONER'S COURT ALLOCATION OF FUNDING FOR THE CONTINUED STUDY THAT INCLUDES THE JAIL. ANYTHING ELSE? SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT OTHER ACTION WE NEED TO TAKE TODAY. THAT'S WHY I WAS ASKING IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT THE COMMITTEE WOULD NEED? COMMISSIONER HALE? I DON'T KNOW THAT WE DO AT THIS POINT. DO Y'ALL? OKAY. I DON'T THINK SO. TODAY MOVE TO ADJOURN. THE RECORDS SHOW. WE'LL ADJOURN AT 10 12. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.