* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] GOOD AFTERNOON. I'M GONNA OPEN THIS MEETING ON FRIDAY, THE AUGUST, AUGUST 15TH, 2025. LET THE RECORD SHOW. CAN I GET EVERYBODY'S ATTENTION REAL QUICK? UM, IT IS 1 0 2. UH, I'M GONNA OPEN THE MEETING FOR THIS AUGUST, FRIDAY, AUGUST 15TH, 2025, UH, TO CONSIDER, DISCUSS, AND ACT UPON THE FOLLOWING AGENDA ITEMS. UM, WE'RE GONNA MOVE TO ITEM TWO, BUT BEFORE WE DO THAT, APPARENTLY, I DON'T THINK Y'ALL ARE ALL JUST HERE FOR, JUST TO ENJOY OUR PRETTY FACES UP HERE. UM, IF YOU'RE HERE TO SPEAK, UM, I'M GONNA GIVE YOU THAT OPPORTUNITY BEFORE WE GO IN EXECUTIVE SESSION AND MAKE YOU WAIT. UM, SO IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK, RAISE YOUR HAND AND, AND COME UP AND ANNOUNCE YOUR NAME AND, AND, UH, WE'LL LET YOU SPEAK. COME ON UP. I'D RATHER SPEAK AFTER HEARING THE DISCUSSION. YEAH, WE WANT, I'D LIKE TO KNOW WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT BEFORE I SPEAK. OKAY. UNDERSTOOD. SAME THING, SIR. YES, SIR. OKAY. JIM WEB. OH, I KNOW WHO YOU ARE. YOU ARE JIM. GOOD TO SEE YOU, HAT AND OTHER THINGS. YES. UM, OKAY. UH, WHAT WE'LL DO IS THEN WE'LL MOVE TO, UM, ITEM TWO IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, IN ACCORDANCE WITH SECTION 5 5 1 0 7 2, THE GOVERNMENT [II. EXECUTIVE SESSION] CODE RESERVING THE RIGHT TO MEET ENC CLOSED SESSION. AND TO DISCUSS ITEM A UPDATE, DISCUSS PARKER COUNTY JUSTICE CENTER AND JAIL AND TAKE ANY ACTION OF COURT NEEDS NECESSARY. AND THE RECORD SHOW, WE'LL ADJOURN AT ONE, RULE THREE TO GO TO EXECUTIVE SESSION. OKAY. WE'RE GONNA RECONVENE RECORDS SHOW AT 2 31 FROM EXECUTIVE SESSION AND GO TO THE ITEMS DISCUSSED ON THE UPDATE AND DISCUSSION IN [II.A. Update/Discuss Parker County Justice Center and Jail and take any action the court deems necessary. (Commissioner Hale)] THE JUSTICE CENTER AND JAIL, AND TAKE ANY ACTION IN THE COURT DEEMS NECESSARY. UH, JUST, I THINK THERE'S SOME OF THE COMMISSIONER'S GONNA SPEAK ON THIS. AND I JUST WANT TO JUST SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS ON THIS AS WE, UH, DEAL WITH THIS SITUATION. AND I THINK ALL OF Y'ALL KNOW THIS. THIS HAS BEEN TALKED ABOUT QUITE A BIT THAT, UH, WE'RE A CLEAR DEAD NUMBER FOUR, UM, SOLIDLY IN THE NATION IN COUNTY'S GROWTH. AND SO WE'RE ABOUT 33 PEOPLE ARE MOVING OUT HERE EVERY DAY. AT LEAST THAT'S WHAT THE COUNCIL OF GOVERNMENTS IS SAYING. AND, UM, IF YOU LOOK AT THE TRAFFIC ON I 20, THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU PROBABLY, IT'S PROBABLY CORRECT. AND SO, UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE HERE FOR A REASON. UH, THERE'S A CONCERN, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WITH HOW WE DEAL WITH THE GROWTH AND, UH, SOME OF THE CHALLENGES THAT ARE FACING US. UH, I THINK, UH, COMMISSIONER HOLT, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING YOU'D LIKE TO ADD TO THIS? CERTAINLY. UM, I APPRECIATE EVERYONE SHOWING UP TODAY THAT'S IMPORTANT AND IT'S FOLKS LIKE YOU THAT SHOW UP AND ALSO SOMETIMES, UH, PESTER US ON SOCIAL MEDIA AND, AND HOLD OUR FEET TO THE FIRE, SO TO SPEAK. THAT THAT'S THE REASON WHY THIS COUNTY IS STILL AS GREAT AS IT'S, AND I, I MEAN THAT FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART. UM, JUST TO RESET KIND OF HOW WE GOT TO WHERE WE'RE AT. THE CURRENT FACILITIES THAT WE HAVE ARE OLD. THE JAIL WAS BUILT IN 1989. IN 1989, PARKER COUNTY HAD A POPULATION OF LESS THAN 65,000 PEOPLE. THE DISTRICT COURT BUILDING THAT WE USE WAS BUILT AS A POST OFFICE 114 YEARS AGO. IT'S A BEAUTIFUL BUILDING, BUT IT'S NOT GREAT FOR THINGS LIKE TRYING FELONY TRIALS, TRYING CASES WHERE THERE'S BEEN MURDER OR SEXUAL ASSAULT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THESE ARE VERY SERIOUS MATTERS IN THE FACILITIES THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE, HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE THINGS LIKE SAFETY, THINGS LIKE THE FAMILY OF A VICTIM SHOWING UP AND NOT CROSSING PATHS WITH THE FAMILY OF THE ACCUSED. SO THERE'S SOME, THERE'S SOME COMPLEXITIES HERE THAT GO BEYOND JUST BUILDING A NORMAL OFFICE BUILDING. THERE'S SOME SAFETY MEASURES THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY IF WE'RE GOING TO BE A LAW AND ORDER SOCIETY RIGHT NOW, WE PAY QUITE A BIT OF MONEY BECAUSE OUR JAIL IS OVER CAPACITY. WE CAN'T PUT MORE PEOPLE IN THE JAIL. SO WE HAVE TO PAY TO SEND THOSE PEOPLE TO OTHER COUNTIES. THOSE COUNTIES RECEIVE FUNDS FROM US. THAT RATE IS DETERMINED VIA AGREEMENT BETWEEN OUR COUNTY AND THEIR COUNTY. BUT IT'S ALSO REFLECTIVE OF THE OVERALL NEEDS OF THE REGION. WELL, THIS REGION'S GROWING REALLY FAST AND THERE'S A LOT OF OTHER COUNTIES THAT ARE IN THE SAME POSITION WE ARE. SO WE CAN EXPECT THOSE RATES TO CONTINUE TO INCREASE WITH POPULATION INCREASES ON OUR [00:05:01] SIDE. THE NUMBER OF FOLKS THAT WE HAVE TO SEND OUT IS ALSO GOING TO INCREASE. SO THERE'S SOME VERY SERIOUS NEEDS HERE. OUR DISTRICT COURTS AVERAGE ABOUT TWO AND A HALF TIMES MORE CASES THAN SIMILAR COURTS IN TARRANT COUNTY IN TERMS OF WORKLOAD PER COURT. THIS IS NOT EASY. WE'VE GROWN TREMENDOUSLY AND THERE'S NOT A FREE SOLUTION BECAUSE IF WE DO NOTHING, THE TAX BURDEN VIA PAYING TO SEND PEOPLE ELSEWHERE WILL CONTINUE TO INCREASE. THE, THE ONLY POSSIBLE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO STOP ARRESTING PEOPLE. AND I DON'T THINK SHERIFF ER IS WILLING TO DO THAT. AND I DON'T THINK THE CITIZENS OF THIS COUNTY ARE WILLING TO SEE THAT HAPPEN EITHER. NOW THAT BEING SAID, THAT'S ONE HALF OF THE EQUATION. THE OTHER HALF OF THE EQUATION IS MONEY'S NOT FREE. PROPERTY TAXES ARE VERY, VERY, VERY SERIOUS. ON MONDAY. WE GOT SOME NUMBERS FROM OUR BOND COUNCIL REGARDING THE MASTER PLAN THAT'S INTENDED TO LAST US 50 PLUS YEARS INTO THE FUTURE. WE TOOK A LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS AND WE SAID, HEY, WE BELIEVE IN THE VISION OF THAT PLAN, BUT THE NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE RIGHT NOW SIMPLY AREN'T PRACTICAL. AND I THINK THAT IF ANYBODY HERE HAS BUILT A BUSINESS, YOU PROBABLY HAD TO START SMALLER THAN WHAT THE END GOAL WAS, AND THEN YOU HAD TO GROW IT ORGANICALLY OVER TIME. WHAT WE'VE DONE IS WE ASKED OUR PARTNERS AT HDR AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW CAN WE RETAIN THE FUNCTION OF THE MASTER PLAN OVER 50 PLUS YEARS WHILE REDUCING THE IMMEDIATE IMPACT. AND I THINK WE'VE COME UP WITH SOME PRETTY DARN GOOD SOLUTIONS OF HOW WE CAN DO THIS IN PHASES. INSTEAD OF TRYING TO BITE IT ALL OFF AT ONCE, THE PLAN STILL HAS TO SECURE LAW AND ORDER FOR THIS COUNTY, FOR THIS GENERATION AND GENERATIONS TO COME. UM, AND I THINK THE, THE FOLKS THAT WE ASKED TO, TO WORK ON THIS DID AN EXCELLENT JOB, IN MY OPINION. SO JUDGE, THAT'S ALL I HAVE. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK BEFORE WE TURN IT OVER? UH, HOLD, HOLD ON ONE SECOND. IS THERE ANY OTHER COMMISSIONER WOULD LIKE TO SAY SOMETHING BEFORE WE TURN IT OVER? WELL, WE, WE DISCUSSED, UH, HOW TO HAVE A PHASED IN APPROACH, UH, RATHER THAN JUST SAYING, OKAY, WE'RE GONNA BUILD A SMALLER BUILDING OR WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS. HOW CAN WE BUILD THE PORTIONS THAT WE NEED? AND THEN OVER TIME BE ABLE TO BUILD ADDITIONAL PHASES THAT WILL ACCOMMODATE OUR NEEDS AS, AS TIME MOVES FORWARD. AND SO THAT WAS NOT IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT'S COME FORWARD HERE. AND I GUESS THE OTHER THING THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT OUT IS WHY ARE WE IN SUCH A HURRY? AND BECAUSE WE'RE AT THE DEADLINE, WE'RE AT A DEADLINE THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE, WE CAN ONLY HAVE BOND ELECTIONS ONLY EVERY OTHER YEAR IN NOVEMBER. AND SO, UH, TO BE ABLE TO GET, UH, IN THE TIMEFRAME IT HAS TO BE DONE RIGHT NOW, THERE MAY BE SOME OTHER THINGS THAT COMMISSIONER, UH, HALE WANTS TO ADD THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT. NO, WELL, I WOULD LIKE TO STRESS THAT, I MEAN, WE, WE SPOKE ABOUT THE JAIL AND THAT'S AN EASY CONVERSATION. UM, AND I, I BELIEVE JUDGE QUISENBERRY, YOU CAN SPEAK TO THIS BETTER THAN ME, BUT THE JUSTICE CENTER GOES HAND IN HAND WITH THIS. I, I KNOW I'VE HEARD THE NUMBERS WE'RE BEHIND ON OUR DISTRICT COURTS BASED ON OUR POPULATION, AND I THINK YOU CAN PROBABLY ADDRESS THIS BETTER THAN ME, BUT WE, WE MAY HAVE A BACKLOG AT OUR COURTS, WHICH JAMMING UP AT THE JAIL AND IT'S COSTING US MONEY. 'CAUSE WE'RE HAVING TO SPEND APPROXIMATELY $106 PER HEAD, PER PERSON PER DAY TO SHIP 'EM OFF AND HOUSE 'EM AT ANOTHER JAIL THAT HAS THE CAPACITY. AND I THINK AS OF THE, THE OTHER DAY, THE LAST UPDATE I HAD WAS APPROXIMATELY 51, 50 54. WE HAVE 54 PEOPLE. WE'RE HAVING TO PAY $106 FOR TODAY TO ANOTHER FACILITY, AND IT'S NOT GETTING ANY SMALLER. SO THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT I HADN'T THOUGHT OF, THINKING OF HOW THE, THE, THE COURTS WORK HAND IN HAND AND HOW THAT IMPACTS OUR JAIL. AND THAT WAS EYE-OPENING TO ME. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE AND AT LEAST MENTION THAT TO, TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. UM, AND ALSO THE FACT THAT EACH OF THESE ARE GONNA BE STANDALONE ON THE BALLOT, WHICH MEANS IF YOU BELIEVE IN ONE, YOU CAN VOTE FOR IT NOT THE OTHER OR VICE VERSA OR BOTH. BUT THESE ARE NEEDS DRIVEN BY THE COUNTY AND ALL THIS GROWING PAINS THAT WE'RE, WE'RE EXPERIENCING. BUT THIS HAS TO GO BEFORE THE VOTER AND BE PUT TO US [00:10:01] TO VOTE ON IT AND KNOW HOW TO HANDLE THIS AND ALLOCATE THE DOLLARS. AND I THINK THAT WHAT WAS BROUGHT TO US BY THE PARTNERS AT HDR IN THIS FAN, UH, PHASED APPROACH, I, I BELIEVE IT'S THE, THE RIGHT WAY TO GO. UM, BUT IT HAS TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE CAN AFFORD. AND, AND IT'S, UH, TRUST ME, I I I WRITE MY PROPERTY, CHECK MY PROPERTY TAX CHECKS TOO. SO I, I'M VERY, VERY COGNIZANT OF THIS AND WANT TO, I DON'T TAKE THESE DECISIONS LIGHTLY BY ANY MEANS. AND I WANT TO, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE PLAN FOR THE FUTURE BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T WANT IS US TO GO FIND A TEMPORARY SHORT-TERM FIX FOR THESE 54 AND SAY, WELL, LET'S PLAN FOR 75 AND NEXT YEAR WE HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE. OH, AND BY THE WAY, CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS JUST JUMPED UP 42% LIKE OUR HOT MIX OR BASE PRICES DID A FEW WEEKS AGO. AND SO THE, I JUST WANTED TO ADD THAT FOR, FOR CONTEXT, JUST I THINK FOR BUDGET PURPOSES, JUDGE, I THINK WE, WE, WE DISCUSSED JUST UNDER $2 MILLION FOR HOUSING SHERIFF, IS THAT ABOUT RIGHT? JUST UNDER $2 MILLION FOR HOUSING, UH, PRISONERS OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTY. RIGHT. FOR NEXT, FOR NEXT YEAR, 1.97. 1.97 BASED ON 51 AT 1 0 6. RIGHT. BUT THAT NUMBER DOES, WE WE HAVE A GOOD PLAN. WE'RE GONNA LET Y'ALL VOTE, SEE HOW IT GOES. IT'S GONNA BE STRETCHED OUT OVER MANY YEARS INSTEAD OF JUST ALL AT ONCE. SO JUDGE, WOULD YOU LIKE TO FILE? WELL, KENNY, I WANNA SAY ONE MORE JUST BEFORE WE TURN OVER TO THE JUDGE IS, UM, WHEN WE DID THIS AND WE GOT THAT NUMBER BACK, IN A PERFECT WORLD, UM, FROM A TIME VALUE OF MONEY AND A CONSTRUCTION COST WOULD BE IDEAL TO JUST DO IT AND BUY, BUY THAT BULLET RIGHT NOW AND JUST DO IT ALL AND GET IT DONE. WE LOOKED AT THAT NUMBER AND WE LOOKED FROM A CONSERVATIVE STANDPOINT OF THE IMPACT IT WOULD HAVE ON YOU ON A 25% INCREASE IN YOUR TAXES. AND SO WE STOOD, WE STEPPED BACK AND LOOKED AT A PHASED APPROACH. UH, 'CAUSE THE BOTTOM LINE IS, IS WHEN THIS GOES TO THE VOTER, IT IT'S CRITICAL THAT, UM, WE DEAL AND SOLVE THESE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE IS WHAT WAS JUST ARTICULATED ON THE COST. THAT'S JUST PART OF IT. UH, BUT OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM, BECAUSE WE'RE SO GOOD IN CHAIR POTHE IS SO GOOD AT WHAT HE'S DOING IS GETTING THESE PEOPLE OFF THE STREETS THAT NEED TO BE GOTTEN OFF THE STREETS. UM, NOW WE GOTTA DO SOMETHING WITH 'EM. AND SO, UH, I'LL SAY THIS, THAT, THAT OUR, OUR DEBT FROM A COUNTY STANDPOINT, NON TRANSPORTATION IS ZERO. WE DON'T HAVE ANY DEBT. AND SO OTHER THAN TRANSPORTATION, AND THOSE ALL WERE VOTER APPROVED THAT YOU HAVE, AND UH, UP UNTIL JUST RECENTLY THE COUNTY ABSORBED ALL THAT DEBT AND EVEN THE VOTER APPROVED BONDS THAT WE DID, AND WE PASSED THAT WE GOT PASSED YOU DIDN'T EVEN PAY FOR. AND, UH, WE ABSORBED THAT UP UNTIL JUST LAST YEAR. WE HAD TO, UM, PUT OUT A COUPLE CENTS ON THAT TO, TO THE VOTER, BUT IT WAS VOTER APPROVED. AND FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 1215, WHATEVER YEARS IT HAS BEEN IS THE FIRST TIME YOU'VE STARTED PAYING FOR TRANSPORTATION COSTS. AND SO WE DO HAVE NEEDS ACROSS THIS COUNTY. WATER, UH, IS CRITICAL OBVIOUSLY, AND TRANSPORTATION WILL CONTINUE TO BE WORKED ON AND AND SOLVED. UH, SO THIS IS JUST A CONTINUATION OF THESE NEEDS, AND WE'RE ASKING FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT WE'RE NOW LOOKING AT A PHASED APPROACH. I KNOW THAT, UH, A LOT OF Y'ALL HAVE PICTURES OF WHAT WE IDEALLY WOULD LIKE TO SEE. UM, AGAIN, I COMMEND THE COMMITTEE THAT, UH, DID THIS AND PUT A LOT OF WORK INTO THIS, AND WE WANT IT TO BE SOMETHING TO BE PROUD OF. BUT WE TOOK A STEP BACK AND WE LOOKED AT THIS FROM A COST STANDPOINT OF WHAT IT'S GONNA IMPACT YOU. AND THAT'S CRITICAL TO US IS WHAT IMPACTS WE'RE ABOUT 15% OF YOUR OVERALL TAX RATE. UH, WHEREAS OBVIOUSLY THERE'S TAXES OTHER PLACES AS SCHOOL AND ESDS AND CITIES AND IF YOU LIVE IN ONE. SO WE DO ALL OF THIS WITH THE JUSTICE SYSTEM AND EVERYTHING FOR ABOUT 15 TO 16% OF YOUR OVERALL TAX RATE. SO, UH, JUDGE, YOU HAVE YOU WANT TO SAY SOMETHING? THANK YOU. MEMBERS OF THE COURT, UH, OBVIOUSLY I WORK IN THE, UH, JUSTICE SYSTEM AND YOU KNOW, CANDIDLY, UH, JUDGES ARE THE EMBODIMENT OF THE THIRD BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT, AND THAT IS THE JUDICIAL BRANCH. AND AS WE KNOW, OUR CONSTITUTIONAL SYSTEM PROVIDES THAT WE HAVE THREE COVAL BRANCHES GO. AND THE CONCEPT IS EACH BRANCH IS A CHECK ON THE POWER OF THE OTHER TWO BRANCHES. AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE TRY TO ACHIEVE FUNDAMENTALLY. UM, MOST, I KNOW MOST OF YOU, AND YOU KNOW, [00:15:01] I'VE BEEN ON THE BENCH A LONG TIME. I'VE BEEN IN A LOT OF COURTHOUSES OVER THE STATE AS A PRACTICING LAWYER, AND I'VE DONE A LITTLE BIT OF TRAVELING AS A JUDGE. AND SO I HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO OBSERVE FACILITIES, UM, ALL OVER THE STATE. THE PROS AND CONS OF EACH, UH, WE, UH, WE HAVE A POPULATION BROKE HERE THAT EVERYONE IS AWARE OF. AND SOME YEARS AGO I SAW THIS GRANT COMING AND I'VE BEEN AN ADVOCATE TO TRY TO GET AHEAD OF THE CURVE AND GET A, A JUSTICE CENTER DONE IN WHATEVER SUPPORT FACILITIES THAT WE NEED FOR THAT. AND SO WE'RE AT THE POINT RIGHT NOW, WE ARE ALL AWARE OF THE EXPONENTIAL GROWTH OF THE COUNTY POPULATION, THE TRAFFIC, AND ACCORDINGLY THE CASE LOADS IN THE COURT. AND SO THE COURT, THE COMMISSIONER'S COURT, UH, FORMED A COMMITTEE, UH, TO, UH, STUDY PRIMARILY A JUSTICE CENTER, A STEERING COMMITTEE CONSISTING OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, THE DISTRICT CLERK, COMMISSIONER, HALE, AND NICK. AND SO WE BEEN WORKING ON, FOR THE PAST 18 MONTHS, ESSENTIALLY, WITH THE ASSISTANCE OF THE ARCHITECTS AND ENGINEERS. I CAN TELL YOU AT THE OUTSET, UH, CHANCES ARE I PROBABLY WON'T SIT AND WHATEVER GETS, UM, I ON THE BENCH, LIFE WILL BE OVER BY THAT TIME. SO THIS ISN'T ABOUT BUILDING A BUILDING FOR ME, THE CITY, I, I DON'T HAVE ANY INTENTION OF LEAVING THE COUNTY. AND SINCE I DON'T, THAT MEANS I HAVE TO EXIST HERE AND HOPEFULLY HAVE THE SAME CULTURE AND ENVIRONMENT WE'VE CREATED OVER THE YEARS. I THINK, I THINK WE HAVE A REPUTATION AS A LAW AND ORDER COMMUNITY, AND I'VE HEARD PEOPLE TELL ME THAT'S OUR REPUTATION OVER IN THE TAR COUNTY JAIL, LITERALLY, THAT THEY DON'T WANT COME OVER HERE TO BE TRIED. AND SO AS A RESIDENT, I WANNA MAINTAIN THAT NOW AS A RESIDENT ALSO, I GET PAID FOR THAT JUST LIKE YOU DO. AND I THINK MAYBE A LITTLE TALK HAS GOTTEN OUT THERE THAT MAYBE WE WERE BEING A LITTLE EXTRAVAGANT OR WE'RE DOING SOMETHING A LITTLE TOO ELABORATE OR WHATEVER. AND OF COURSE, ANYBODY THAT'S EVER BUILT A HOUSE THAT, UH, THAT HAD SOMEBODY, UH, MAYBE YOUR SPOUSE ALONG WITH, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN HAVE THOSE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT WHAT'S TOO MUCH OR TOO LITTLE. AND SO THAT KIND OF GETS INTO WHAT WE'RE DOING HERE. BUT I WOULD SAY ALSO THAT, UM, PERSONALLY MY PHILOSOPHY, WHEN I HAVE EVEN UNCONTESTED MATTERS, I HAVE PEOPLE TESTIFY FROM THE WITNESS TEST. WHY DO I DO THAT? BECAUSE I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THEY'VE BEEN IN COURT. AND SO IF WE BUILT A FACILITY, I WANT PEOPLE TO DRIVE BY AND KNOW THERE THE COURT, I WANT PEOPLE TO DRIVE BY AND HAVE SOME RESPECT FOR WHAT WE'RE DOING. OUR COMMITTEE UNDERTOOK THE PROJECT AND CAME UP WITH A PLAN TO GIVE TO THE COMMISSIONER COURT. THIS IS A LONG TIME COMING. AND SO ACCORDINGLY, WHAT WE'RE HAVING TO DO, BASICALLY TO CATCH UP, IS TO SPEND A WHOLE LOT OF MONEY. AND I'LL BE VERY FRANK, DURING THE TIME ON THE COMMITTEE WHEN WE WERE JUST LOOKING AT LOCATIONS, LOOKING AT BUILDING DESIGNS, I WAS VERY APPREHENSIVE IN DREADING THE DAY WHEN WE GOT TO THE POINT OF FINDING OUT HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST. I WASN'T LOOKING FORWARD TO THAT. AND I DON'T EVEN LIKE TO SAY THE NUMBERS TODAY BECAUSE I GET TO PAY FOR LIKE EVERYBODY. WE CAME UP WITH WHAT A MATCH TO A 50 YEAR PLAN, A 50 YEAR PLAN, AS VISIONARY AS WE CAN BE, TAKES INTO ACCOUNT WHAT FORCE WE WOULD HAVE IN THE FUTURE, UH, WHAT OUR NEEDS WILL BE IN THE FUTURE. AND THEN TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION ALL THE MODERN THINGS YOU GOTTA PUT IN THERE THESE DAYS. CONCURRENTLY WITH THAT, YOU HAVE TO HANDLE THE INMATE POPULATION AT THE JAIL. THAT WASN'T OUR REAL STATE. THE JAIL WASN'T THE JUSTICE CENTER WAS, BUT WE WERE NOT MINDFUL OF [00:20:01] THAT. SO YOU HAVE PROXIMITY OF THE JAIL TO THE FACILITY THAT YOU HAVE TO THINK ABOUT TRANSPORT OF PRISONERS AND MOVING OF PRISONERS INSIDE THE FACILITY. AND SO THIS INVOLVES DEDICATED PATHWAYS, IT INVOLVES ELEVATORS, IT INVOLVES SECURITY, PARKING, ALL OF THESE KINDS OF THINGS. TOOK ALL OF THIS INTO ACCOUNT WHEN WE CAME UP WITH OUR PLAN. PERSONALLY, I'LL, I'LL BE HONEST TO TELL YOU, I, FOR THE 50 YEAR PLAN, WHICH IS MEGA BUCKS, I THINK THAT SAVES THE MOST MONEY IN THE, FRANKLY, BECAUSE WHEN WE COME BACK AND DO OTHER THINGS, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO DO IT AT CONSTRUCTION, WHATEVER THEY MAY BE, NOT ANOTHER BOND ELECTION, SO FORTH. THAT'S THE SIDE THAT I ON. NEVERTHELESS, SOMETHING HAS TO GET DONE. I HAVE TWO DEATH PENALTY CASES. UH, THIS ATTORNEY HAS FILED TWO DEATH PENALTY CASES. WE DON'T HAVE FACILITIES TO DO IT. WE DON'T RIGHT NOW. WE DON'T, IF WE GO TRIAL THESE DEATH PENALTY CASES, IT'S GONNA PUSH SOME OF THE OTHER COURTS OUT BUSINESS BASICALLY, BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO HAVE SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THAT LARGE JURY PANELS, LONG TIME SITTING JURY, ALL THIS STUFF THAT GOES INTO THAT. WE CAN'T EVEN DO THAT TODAY. REALISTICALLY, UH, IT, IT, WE CAN'T GO TELL ANYBODY. WE HAVE A FACILITY TO DO THAT RIGHT NOW. WE'LL GET IT DONE AND WE'LL DO WHATEVER WE HAVE TO DO. BUT, UH, THAT'S WHERE WE ARE. AND SO THAT'S KIND OF WHY I'M ON, ON THE LONG TERM PLAN WAY. ALTERNATIVELY, THE COURT WILL HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE DECISIONS ABOUT THE AMOUNT OF BOND THAT MIGHT BE SUBMITTED TO THE VOTERS. MY LONG TERM PLAN, UM, THAT I WOULD BE IN FAVOR OF WOULD PUT A NUMBER OUT THERE. THAT CERTAINLY WOULD'VE A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE OF FAILING JUST BY THE NUMBER ITSELF. NOW, AS FAR AS THE UNDERLYING REASON TO DO IT, I DON'T THINK IT'S REALLY SUBJECT TO CRITICISM. I THINK IT'S PRETTY REALISTIC. WE RAW AND SERIAL IN THE COMMITTEE AND ANYBODY THAT KNOWS ME KNOWS THAT I'M NOT A SPEND THREAT AND I'M, I'M NOT A GUY TO TURN LOOSE IN MY MONEY VERY EASILY. AND THAT'S HOW I LIVED. AND SO WE WERE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE PHYSICAL ASPECT OF IT, OF WHAT THESE THINGS COST. THEY COST. AND I HAD A RECENT EXPERIENCE IN THE, UH, HOOD COUNTY, UH, JUSTICE FACILITY, AND THAT WAS BY ASSIGNMENT. I SET THE CASE OVER THERE AND WE HAD A ROOM FULL OF PEOPLE ON A FRIDAY AFTERNOON. AND, UH, THEY TOOK COST INTO ACCOUNT, OBVIOUSLY. UH, AND I HAD A FEW PROBLEMS WITH HOW THAT LAYOUT WAS STARTING WITH ME WALKING FROM MY CAR INTO THE BUILDING BECAUSE I REALLY WASN'T VERY COMFORT. AND I DON'T EVEN WORRY ABOUT STUFF LIKE THAT VERY MUCH. BUT, UH, YOU GOTTA PLAN FOR THESE THINGS CONCURRENTLY. SO, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE BACKGROUND. UM, YOU KNOW, I WISH WE COULD, I WISH WE COULD DO THIS OVERNIGHT. LAST THING I WOULD SAY, UH, QUALITY OF LIFE. THIS AFFECTS THE QUALITY OF LIFE. IT'S BEEN MY CONCERN ALL ALONG. THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY NEEDS FOUR LAWYERS. THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY NEEDS FOR A SQUARE FOOT. UH, WE ARE MAXED OUT RIGHT NOW. UH, I KNOW THAT THE HEADACHE FOR HIM AND, AND JEFF, FEEL FREE TO SAY WHATEVER IN THAT REGARD, BUT, BUT IT ALL WORKS AS A SYSTEM. THE JAIL, THE COURT, THE CASELOADS, THE NUMBER OF LAWYERS THEY CAN HANDLE, GET WITNESSES IN, ALL THIS STUFF WORKS IN CONJUNCTION, ALL OF WHICH WE TOOK INTO ACCOUNT WHEN WE CAME UP WITH THE DESIGN THAT WE DID. AND SO THAT PRETTY MUCH THE SUMMATION OF OUR WORK. ANYBODY HAS ANY QUESTIONS? TALK ABOUT THE NEED FOR A THIRD COURT. PARDON ME? YOU, YOU DIDN'T MENTION ANYTHING ABOUT THE NEED FOR A THIRD COURT AND AND YOUR CASELOAD. AND YOUR CASELOAD YEAH. COMPARED, COMPARED TO, YES. ALRIGHT. NO MATTER WHAT WE DO PHYSICALLY WITH OUR FACILITY, WE ARE ANTICIPATING KEEP FOR COURT. [00:25:02] I THINK IT'S A VIRTUAL CERTAINTY THAT WE WILL ASK FOR, UH, ADDITIONAL COURT IN THE NEXT LEGISLATIVE SESSION, IF NOT TWO ADDITIONAL COURTS. WE ARE OPERATING AT MAXIMUM CASELOAD BY SOME STATISTICS. UH, WE'RE KIND OF, LIKE I SAID, TWO AND A HALF TIMES WISE OVER WHAT YOUR AVERAGE COURT DOES IN COUNTY. UH, I'M NOT GONNA STAND HERE AND TELL YOU THAT WE'RE UNDERWATER, WE'RE NOT UNDER WATER. WE WORK, WE GET OUR STUFF DONE. BUT THIS WILL BECOME A CRISIS. IT'LL BACK UP THAT JAIL. WE, WE TRIED A PAGE A FEW WEEKS AGO, THE FELLOW BEEN IN JAIL A LONG TIME. A LONG TIME, AND PART OF THE REASON NOT, PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT WAS THAT WE COULDN'T GET THAT TO TRIAL AT TIMELY AS WE WANT TO. SO YOU APPLY THAT ON HOWEVER ATIONS WE HAVE AND IT BECOMES A PROBLEM. THE FACILITY THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DOES, REGARDLESS OF THE FORM, WE'LL HAVE SPACE FOR ADDITIONAL COURTS. SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONAL DISTRICT COURTS TALKING ABOUT ADDITIONAL COUNTY COURTS OF LAW, AND WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PROBATE COURT, UH, ULTIMATELY BECAUSE OF THE POPULATION OF OUR COUNTY, WHICH WILL BE DEDICATED TO PROBATE MATTERS AND SO FORTH AND SO ON. UH, I DON'T THINK ANY OF US SEE ANY END IN SIGHT TO OUR POPULATION GROWTH. UH, THEY'RE STILL GONNA COME HERE. AND ONCE AGAIN, WHY, WHY DO PEOPLE COME HERE? BECAUSE THEY THINK WE HAVE A GOOD PLACE TO LIVE. SO, SO THIS IS JUST, THANK YOU, JUDGE. I THINK WE HAVE SOME QUESTIONS. DO YOU, ANYBODY HAVE A QUESTION? WELL, I DUNNO IF THIS IS, DO YOU MIND, DO YOU MIND GOING AND COMING UP TO US SO WE CAN HEAR YOU? IF YOU JUST WANNA MAKE A GENERAL COMMENT. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE JUDGE? THAT IS WHAT I'M SAYING. WELL, I HAVE SPECIFIC QUESTIONS. I, THE JUDGE IS THE RIGHT PERSON BECAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE BEING DISCUSSED. BUT WHAT ARE THE NUMBERS? YEAH. CAN YOU, WELL, YOU HAVE TO COME UP AND, AND COME ON UP IF YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELF AND, AND COME TO THE MICRO LYNN BER, UH, MY QUESTION IS, I, I'M HEARING AS SAID, SOCIAL MEDIA. I'M HEARING RUMORS, BUT I HAVE, I HAVE NO FACTS EXCEPT WHAT YOU VOTED ON AT THE LAST MEETING THAT I ATTENDED WHEN ASK IF THIS WAS GONNA BE GOING. SO WHAT IS THE 50 YEAR PLAN? WHAT IS THE PHASE IN PLAN? WHAT, WHAT ACTUALLY ARE WE LISTENING TO SO WE HAVE SOME CONTEXT? AND HOW MUCH OF THAT PLAN OF THE NUMBER IS ALLOCATED TO THE JUSTICE CENTER VERSUS THE JAIL? I MEAN, SO THAT'S JUST LIKE, HERE'S, HERE'S THE BONUS. WHAT KIND OF AN ANIMAL IS IT BEFORE WE START ASKING SPECIFICS ABOUT THE ANIMALS? MIKE, YOU WANNA HANDLE THAT? YOU, YOU'VE GOT THE NUMBERS THERE FROM, FROM MONDAY AND, AND YEAH, I MEAN, WE HAVE THE NUMBERS FROM THIS MORNING. UM, I, I DON'T, I THINK IT HDR MAY BE ABLE TO SPEAK AND ANSWER A LOT OF THESE QUESTIONS, UM, IN THE DETAIL. UM, BUT I'LL GO AHEAD AND READ OUT. Y'ALL WANT ME TO GO AHEAD AND READ WHERE WE ARE? YEAH. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE DOING? SURE. YEAH. SO AS OF THIS MORNING AND WHAT WE'RE DISCUSSING, WE'RE LOOKING AT A JUSTICE COURT, A JUSTICE BUILDING THAT WOULD HOUSE SEVEN COURTS AND TO GET TO THESE NUMBERS. AND IN THIS PHASED APPROACH, WE WOULD NOT INCLUDE THE PROBATE COURT, THE COUNTY CLERK, THE JUSTICE OF THE PEACE, WHICH WOULD ELIMINATE THREE COURTS OF THE, THE 10, THIS IS APP. THIS SHOULD GIVE US AN APPROXIMATE 10, HOPEFULLY TO 15 YEAR LIFESPAN ON THE CASELOADS FOR THESE JAILS. WELL, THE TOTAL NUMBER WAS RIGHT AT 500 MILLION FOR A 50 YEAR PLAN. AND, AND THAT ANYTHING, RIGHT? AND THAT INCLUDED PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING. UM, AND I, LIKE I SAY, I HATE TO EVEN SAY THAT NUMBER , BUT, BUT THAT'S JUST HOW IT CAME OUT. TAKING INTO ACCOUNT WHAT THINGS COST, UH, AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING NOW, IT'S GONNA BE UP TO THE COURT, WHAT THE COURT ULTIMATELY COMES UP WITH NUMERICALLY TO PUT ON THE BOND, YOU KNOW, AND THAT, THAT'S A DECISION THAT HADN'T BEEN MADE. I'LL ADDRESS THAT. SO, UM, LAST MONDAY WAS WHEN WE ALL FOUND OUT WHAT THE TAX IMPLICATIONS WOULD BE OF THAT LESS LITTLE, [00:30:01] BIT LESS THAN $500 MILLION BOND. AND YOU PROBABLY, IF YOU LISTEN, OF COURSE YOU HEARD ME SAY THAT'S GONNA BE A A ABOUT A 10 CENTS INCREASE TO YOUR COUNTY PROPERTY TAX. IT WOULD INCREASE IT FROM WHAT WE'VE PROPOSED AT 28 CENTS TO 38 CENTS. OKAY? THAT'S WHAT THE IMPLICATION WOULD BE. AND IF YOU WERE LISTENING, YOU HEARD ME SAY, I, I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE CAN SUPPORT. SO WE WENT BACK AND WE DIRECTED OUR GUYS OVER HERE TO, TO MAKE SIGNIFICANT CHANGES. UH, WE'VE COME BACK NOW AND, UH, THE, THE BOTTOM LINE OF IT IS THE TAX IMPLICATION THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING. AND, AND THAT'S OUR NUMBERS TODAY IS A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN 5 CENTS. NOW OUR BOND COUNCIL IS NOT ABLE TO HAVE THE, THE TOTAL NUMBERS TO US UNTIL MONDAY. SO WE'LL HAVE COURT ON MONDAY MORNING. YEAH, NINE O'CLOCK MM-HMM . 10 O'CLOCK. 10 O'CLOCK, YEAH. AND, AND MONDAY, AND BOND COUNCIL WILL BE HERE, PRESENT THE NUMBERS TO US, AND AT THAT POINT WE'LL MAKE A DECISION. SO WE CUT ABOUT THE, THE TAX, THE TAX BURDEN. WE THINK TODAY IT'S PROBABLY ABOUT HALF OF WHAT, WHAT THE IMPLICATION WAS GOING TO BE ON MONDAY. NOW THERE'S A LOT OF, UH, A LOT OF CHANGES AND A LOT OF THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT FROM, FROM JUDGE BERRY'S 50 YEAR PLAN TO GET US TO WHERE WE ARE, OR WE THINK WE'RE GONNA BE ON MONDAY, BUT WE'RE JUST GOING BY THE PRELIMINARY NUMBERS THAT WE'VE BEEN GIVEN. WE THINK THAT'S WHERE WE'RE GOING TO GO. AND WHAT THAT DOES IS IT CHANGES FROM A JAIL AT ANOTHER LOCATION TO, UH, IMPROVEMENTS TO THE JAIL HERE, UH, EXPANSION SIGNIFICANTLY TO THE JAIL AND LEAVING OUT SOME PORTIONS OF THE COURT, UH, JUSTICE CENTER PORTION THAT WE, UH, BELIEVE CAN BE PHASED IN. AND JUST LIKE THE JAIL, THOSE WILL BE PHASED IN PAY FOR PART OF IT NOW AND PART OF IT DOWN THE ROAD. SO WE WOULD LIKE TO DO WHAT BERRY WOULD LIKE TO BE DONE, BUT IT'S JUST NOT FEASIBLE. SO WE'RE GONNA DO IT IN PHASES. YEAH. SO THAT'S THE PROPOSAL. AND, AND, UM, I SITTING HERE LOOKING AT WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO BE ABOUT 104,754,000 FOR THE JAIL COST. 181,601 MILLION 181,000,601 FOR THE JUSTICE CENTER. SO A, A TOTAL, UH, THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW, ABOUT 286 MILLION. SO NUMBERS THAT BEFUDDLE ANYONE WHO SITS THERE AND LISTENS TO IT, THE COST OF THESE THINGS, IT, IT IS OVERWHELMING, UH, BECAUSE OF THE TREMENDOUS, UH, INCREASE THAT WE'VE HAD AT CONSTRUCTION COSTS. OUR JOB IS TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE NEEDS ARE. AND I, I THINK JUDGE QUISENBERRY DID A WONDERFUL JOB OF EXPLAINING WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE. THE SHERIFF COULD ALSO DO A, A WONDERFUL JOB OF EXPLAINING WHAT OUR NEEDS ARE FOR THE JAIL SYSTEM AS WELL. UH, MULTIPLY THE NUMBERS THAT WE HAVE AND HOW THEY WOULD INCREASE AND HOW MUCH THAT WOULD MEAN TO OUR BUDGET MOVING FORWARD. UH, NOBODY UP HERE SAYS THAT WE'RE LOCK ANY THIS, BUT WHAT OUR JOB IS TO SAY, UH, THROUGH OUR COMMITTEE THAT THIS IS WHAT THE NEEDS ARE AND LET THE VOTERS DECIDE. GIVE 'EM THE INFORMATION, LET THEM DECIDE. IS THAT FAIR? MM-HMM . IS THERE ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? COME ON UP. STATE YOUR NAME, PLEASE. I DIDN'T SIT HERE TOO LONG. I CAN'T WALK. YEAH, WE KNOW. NORMALLY I CAN WALK. TELL US YOUR NAME. I I HAVE TO TELL US YOUR NAME, PLEASE. SURE. PUT THAT MIC RIGHT. OKAY. I'M HERE TODAY. MY NAME IS, UH, LAURA HEFFLEFINGER, AND I LIVE IN YOUR DISTRICT PRECINCT FOUR. UM, I'M HERE TODAY AGREEING WITH YOU THAT WE NEED TO ADD BEDS TO OUR JAIL. WE ARE PAYING A LOT TO HOUSE PRISONERS OUT OF COUNTY. THE REASON I AM HERE IS TO MAKE SURE TAXPAYER MONEY IS SPENT IN THE BEST POSSIBLE STEWARDSHIP. HERE ARE SOME QUESTIONS TO CONSIDER. AND YOU ANSWERED SOME OF THESE ALREADY. UM, BUT HAVE YOU LOOKED AT ADDITIONAL COSTS OF HOUSING PRISONERS OUT OF COUNTY FOR ADDITIONAL TIME, BUILDING NEW VERSUS, UM, ADDING ON TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE? BECAUSE IF YOU'RE BUILDING FROM SCRATCH, IT'S GONNA TAKE LONGER THAN IF YOU'RE JUST ADDING ON AND YOU'VE GOT THOSE ADDITIONAL COSTS THAT ARE STILL ONGOING TO HOUSE THOSE PRISONERS. SO THAT, I DIDN'T KNOW IF YOU'VE CONSIDERED THAT. UM, AND THEN YOU ANSWERED THIS QUESTION ABOUT HAVE YOU ALREADY MET WITH, UM, DESIGN PROFESSIONALS AND, UM, HAVE, IF YOU'VE REVIEWED THEIR PREVIOUS WORK THAT THEY'VE DONE. UM, AND YOU ALSO ANSWERED THAT YOU'VE DONE A STUDY, WHICH IS GREAT. [00:35:01] UM, AND DO YOU HAVE A QUALIFIED CONSULTANT TO REPRESENT PARKER COUNTY'S INTEREST INSPECTING TO MAKE SURE WORK IS DONE PROPERLY, UM, CHALLENGING IF A CHARGE CHANGE ORDER IS LEGITIMATE AND ET CETERA? UM, BEFORE PAYING OUT THE DRAWS? UM, I CAN GO AHEAD AND ANSWER THAT. OKAY. YES, MA'AM. WE INCLUDED IN THIS, IN THESE NUMBERS IS A, IS A LINE ITEM FOR A CONSTRUCTION MANAGER AT RISK. THOSE THAT ARE IN THE CONSTRUCTION WORLD KNOW IT'S A CMAR. THOSE ARE BASICALLY, THEY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE IN CHARGE AND HIRED AND TO REPRESENT THE COUNTY AND DO THE INSPECTIONS AND REVIEW AND, AND DO THE BIDDING. AND OKAY. AND, AND FINALLY, YOU'VE ALREADY HIRED THAT PERSON. IT'S BUDGETED IN THIS OKAY. DOLLAR AMOUNT. WELL, UNTIL THE BOND, YEAH. IF THEN YOU'LL THEN YOU'LL DO IT. SAME THING WILL START. OKAY. DONE. GOOD. GOOD. BUT IT'S BUDGETED IN THIS NUMBER. GOOD. YES, MA'AM. GOOD. UM, AND, UM, HAS THE COUNTY CONSIDERED THE COST EFFECTIVENESS OPERATING IN-HOUSE VERSUS CONTINUING TO OPERATE FROM AN, UH, WITH AN OUTSIDE CONTRACTOR OPERATION OF THE JAIL? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE ASKING? YES. I THINK WE CAN ANSWER THAT PRETTY EASILY, YES. OKAY. IT'S NOT CLOSE, IT'S NOT CLOSE SHERIFF'S SITTING RIGHT OVER THERE. OH. HE CAN TELL YOU THAT, THAT THE NUMBERS ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE. WE, WE WE'RE FAR, WE'RE SAVING LOTS OF MONEY BY HAVING OUTSIDE CONTRACT. OKAY, GOOD. GOOD. AS FAR AS THE, UH, AS FAR AS THE, THE GUYS WHO, UM, WE'VE HIRED TO DO THE STUDY FOR US HERE, THEY'RE SITTING RIGHT OVER HERE AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE CURRENTLY BUILDING A, A JUSTICE CENTER IN SMITH COUNTY. IS THAT RIGHT? ROLLING. TYLER. MM-HMM . YEP. OKAY. WELL, THANK YOU FOR LISTENING TO MY CONCERNS AND ISSUES. AND I, I FEEL GOOD ABOUT THE WORK THAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE. AND, UM, SO CAN I ADDRESS YOUR FIRST POINT WITH A LITTLE BIT OH, OF EXPLANATION ON HAVE WE LOOKED AT THE ADDITIONAL COST OF HOW YES, THAT ONE WASN'T ANSWERED. THANK YOU. SO HERE, HERE'S ONE THING THAT'S INTERESTING. RIGHT NOW WE'RE SENDING, YOU SAID 51 TODAY, 54 54 TODAY, THANK YOU. MM-HMM . UM, THAT'S BEEN AS HIGH AS 60. IT, IT FLUCTUATES. OBVIOUSLY THAT NUMBER'S GONNA CONTINUE TO GO UP, RIGHT? THERE'S A LOT OF COUNTIES IN THIS REGION FROM DFW DOWN TO SAN ANTONIO TO HOUSTON THAT ARE IN THE SAME POSITION WE'RE IN BECAUSE THIS AREA HAS GROWN SO MUCH. UM, WE DON'T HAVE THE BED SPACE NOW, BUT IF WE DID HAVE THE BED SPACE, IF WE DO BUILD SOMETHING, THAT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WE PAY OTHER COUNTIES VERSUS WHAT IT COSTS US IS SOMETHING THAT INSTEAD OF THAT BEING A NET LOSS, THAT CAN BE A NET GAIN. RIGHT. I UNDERSTAND THAT. MY QUESTION WAS LOOKING AT THE TIME, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A BREAKING YOUR ANALYSIS TO BUILD FROM SCRATCH. YEAH. AND YOU'RE PAYING FOR THOSE, YOU'RE STILL, THAT'S STILL AN ONGOING EXPENSE. IF IT'S 60, WHATEVER, HOWEVER MANY PEOPLE, THAT'S STILL AN ONGOING EXPENSE VERSUS IF YOU'RE ADDING ON MM-HMM . AND THAT'S GONNA BE A SHORTER PERIOD OF TIME THAT THAT ONGOING EXPENSE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THAT'S WHAT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE. IF, IF I UNDERSTOOD YOU RIGHT, AND PLEASE TELL ME IF I DIDN'T. THERE'S TWO FACTORS HERE. ONE, WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW IS AN EXPANSION OF THE CURRENT JAIL. RIGHT. WHICH IS, WHICH GONNA BE A LOT FASTER THAN BUILDING A BRAND NEW JAIL AND TRYING TO TURN IT ON. THAT'S WHAT I WAS SAYING. SO THE, I DON'T KNOW THAT ANY OF US AT THIS POINT ARE LOOKING STILL AT A BRAND NEW JAIL FACILITY. OKAY. I THINK OUR FOCUS IS ENTIRELY ON EXPANDING THE CURRENT JAIL. WE DON'T HAVE AN EXACT BREAK EVEN ANALYSIS OF WHEN DOES THE ADDITIONAL COST OF EXPANDING THE JAIL GET PAID FOR BY NO LONGER HAVING TO SEND PEOPLE OUT AND INSTEAD OF HAVING PEOPLE SENT IN, THE REASON WE DON'T HAVE THAT IS WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE RATE TO SEND PEOPLE OUT IS GONNA BE IN FOUR YEARS. RIGHT. RIGHT. WE CAN COME UP WITH SOME ROUGH GUESSES, BUT IT WILL PAY FOR ITSELF, UM, FASTER THAN IT WILL IF WE KICK THE CAN DOWN THE ROAD. OH, NO, I TOTALLY AGREE. I MEAN, SO, UM, DID, DID I ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS? YES. I'M, I'M GLAD TO HEAR YOU'RE NOT STARTING FROM SCRATCH ON A JAIL 'CAUSE THAT, THAT, BECAUSE THAT'S A SHORTER TIMELINE. AND THEN HAVE THEY DESIGNED IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT IT WILL BE EASIER TO EXPAND IN THE FUTURE WHEN YOU NEED, UM, MORE BED SPACE? THE JUSTICE CENTER? YES. THE JAIL, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WOULD, WOULD BE DONE IN TWO PHASES. MM-HMM . ONE PHASE WOULD ADD, ONE PHASE WOULD ADD ABOUT 80% OF OUR CURRENT PASS CAPACITY AGAIN. AND THEN THE SECOND PHASE IS ABOUT OUR EXEC, OUR CURRENT CAPACITY AGAIN IN THE FUTURE. SO WE WOULD BE SOMEWHERE AROUND 1200 BEDS. [00:40:01] WE HAVE LITTLE UNDER 500 NOW WE'RE LOOKING AT ADDING ABOUT 350. LITTLE BIT LESS THAN THAT IMMEDIATELY, BUT BUILDING OUT THE FRAME ONLY AND MAKING SURE WE HAVE THE SPACE TO, AT SOME POINT IN THE FUTURE, DO ALMOST 400 BEDS THEN. SO WE'RE TAKING THAT SAME PHASED APPROACH. YES. WE ARE ANTICIPATING, WE'RE PLANNING FOR HAVING SPACE TO EXPAND IN THE FUTURE. OKAY. GREAT. I THINK Y'ALL HAVE DONE A GOOD JOB. I'M PLEASED. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. ANYONE ELSE WOULD LIKE TO COME UP, SHERIFF? YEAH. REAL BRIEFLY TO ADD ON WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, LAURA. UM, THE CURRENT JAIL, THOSE PEOPLE HAD THE FORESIGHT BACK IN THE DAY TO PLAN FOR FUTURE GROWTH. THE CURRENT, UH, KITCHEN AND LAUNDRY AREA CAN HANDLE UP TO 11 OR 1200. SO THAT'S WHEN, WHEN, AND THIS IS, I'M I'M HEARING THIS LIKE Y'ALL FOR THE FIRST TIME. YEP. PARTS OF IT, , SO, YEP. UH, SO THOSE FACILITIES WILL BE IN PLACE AND THEY CAN HANDLE THAT EXTRA EXPANSION. SO I, A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T KNOW. Y'ALL MAY NOT HAVE KNOWN THAT, BUT YEAH, THEY DID THINK BACK IN THE DAY TO MAKE THIS BIGGER THAN WHAT WE NEED PRESENTLY. SO FOR WHEN THIS DAY COMES AND IT'S HERE. JUST, JUST A LITTLE. AND ANOTHER THING TOO, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE HOUSING PRISONERS OUT THOSE BED SPACES, AND THESE, WE'RE IN FOUR DIFFERENT COUNTY JAILS RIGHT NOW. THOSE 54 PRISONERS, A LOT OF PEOPLE, THEY DON'T HAVE THE SPACE BED SPACE IN A COUNTY JAIL IS AT A PREMIUM. IT'S REAL ESTATE. LIKE, IT'S LIKE ON A GOLF COURSE, IT'S, IT'S, OR IT'S HARD TO GET HARRIS COUNTY, THEY'RE, THEY'RE HOUSING PRISONERS IN LOUISIANA, SEVERAL GOING OUTTA STATE. THE STATE OF HAWAII, I THINK THEY HOUSE FOLKS IN NEW MEXICO. IT'S, IT'S EXTREMELY TOUGH. AND IT JUST MAY NOT BE THE BED SPACE, IT MIGHT BE THE PERSONNEL. THEY MAY NOT BE, HAVE, HAVE ENOUGH JAILERS TO LET OUR PRISONERS COME IN. SO, AND IT'S GONNA GET WORSE AND WORSE AND WORSE JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE AN AGREEMENT WITH, AND WE DO, WE HAVE ABOUT 10 COUNTY JAILS RIGHT NOW. SO WE WE'RE PLANNING ON PLAN B AND C AND D AND E UH, THAT DOESN'T MEAN THERE'S GONNA BE A PLACE FOR THEM OR PRISONER OR GUARDS THERE TO WATCH OUR PRISONERS. SO VERY IMPORTANT. AND I'M, I'M GLAD WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS, BUT, UH, WELL, LAURA LEFT. OKAY, BUT THAT WAS A GOOD QUESTION SHE ASKED. SO, OKAY. I, I THINK BOTH OF THESE PROJECTS, UM, ONE OF THE REASONS WHY EVERYBODY IS SO SHOCKED ABOUT THINGS IS 'CAUSE THEY'RE LATE. YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE WAITED UNTIL THE JAIL'S FULL BEFORE WE START MAKING PLANS FOR EXPANSION. BUT YOU, YOU, YOU'VE ADDED 14, WE'VE ADDED 14 BEDS THIS YEAR, BUT, UM, IT'LL BE READY HERE IN A COUPLE WEEKS. OUR, OUR CURRENT CAPACITY IS 4 69 AND THAT WILL BE 4 83 HERE IN A COUPLE WEEKS. BUT OUR POPULATION TODAY WAS FIVE OF SIX. YEAH. AND YOU CAN'T JUST HAVE THE JAIL FULL. YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO HAVE, 'CAUSE SOME PEOPLE ARE GONNA GET ARRESTED TODAY, SO YOU HAVE TO KEEP SOME BEDS READY FOR THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE GONNA GET ARRESTED TODAY. SO SHERIFF, IF I HAVE A QUESTION FOR YOU, SIR. UM, WE HAD HAD SOME ONLINE DISCUSSIONS OR I'VE HAD SOME ONLINE DISCUSSIONS AND THERE'S A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO ARE A BIG FAN OF SHERIFF JOE OUT IN ARIZONA. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT ARIZONA HAS A DIFFERENT SET OF LAWS THAN TEXAS CAN, CAN YOU TALK TO THE ABILITY TO HAVE TENT CITIES AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF? AND COUNTY JAILS IN TEXAS ARE UNDER THE AUSPICES OF A ENTITY KNOWN AS THE TEXAS JAIL COMMISSION. WE DO NOT HAVE THAT LATITUDE. UH, I WOULD PROBABLY END UP IN MY JAIL IF I DID SOME OF THE STUFF THAT SHERIFF JOE DID OUT IN ARIZONA. UH, I WOULD LOVE TO, UH, BELIEVE ME, I WOULD LOVE TO, BUT NO, WE DO NOT HAVE THAT LUXURY. THEY TELL YOU HOW MANY SQUARE FEET YOU HAVE TO HAVE PER INMATE, HOW MANY EVERYTHING YOU HAVE TO HAVE PER INMATE. SO, WELL, AS WE STARTED LOOKING AT THIS AND, AND SHARING INFORMATION, UH, ANOTHER THING THAT WAS SHOCKING TO ME WAS THE COST PER BED. IF YOU BUILD A JAIL FROM SCRATCH AND, AND I THINK YOUR ARCHITECTS WILL TELL YOU, BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING IT'S BETWEEN 225 AND $275,000 PER BED, IF THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE. YEAH. AND THAT IS UNBELIEVABLE. BUT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THIS ALLEY PORT, THE KITCHEN, THE LAUNDRY, UH, THE EXCESSIVE STANDARDS THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO TO MAKE THESE HARDENED CELLS WHAT THEY ARE. SO THANK YOU SHERIFF. ANYBODY ELSE WOULD LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK? COME ON UP. SO I THINK ONE OF THE, UH, I THINK ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE SOMETIMES WHEN YOU'RE REALLY, REALLY INTO SOMETHING IS YOU ASSUME EVERYBODY ELSE KNOWS WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. WHEN THEY DON'T. I KIND OF FEEL LIKE , [00:45:01] I KIND OF FEEL LIKE WE, WE JUMPED INTO THE MIDDLE RATHER THAN WENT FROM THE START AS FAR AS WHERE THINGS WERE ON MONDAY WITH WHAT WE, WHAT WHAT WAS BEING PROPOSED AND THOUGHT ABOUT AND THEN FOUND OUT ABOUT THE TAX RATE WITH WHERE WE ARE NOW. SO I THOUGHT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL IF IT'S OKAY WITH THE COURT TO, TO SHARE THAT. IS THAT OKAY WITH Y'ALL? ABSOLUTELY. OKAY. SO MONDAY WE WERE LOOKING AT A BRAND NEW FROM SCRATCH JAIL. AND THAT WAS GONNA BE AROUND 270 MILLION. AND I'M GONNA ROUND SOME NUMBERS OFF A LITTLE BIT HERE FOR EASE OF REFERENCE. 'CAUSE THAT IS ANYBODY LIKE A DOCTORAL IN MATH? I'M NOT GONNA MAKE ANYBODY CRAZY. OKAY. SO THE NEW JAIL WAS ABOUT 270 MILLION. THE NEW, UH, JUSTICE CENTER OR COURTHOUSE WAS ABOUT 230 MILLION. OKAY. UM, AND SO THAT'S BASICALLY WHERE WE WERE. THE JAIL WOULD HAVE ABOUT 1200 BEDS, UM, GIVE OR TAKE. UH, AND THE COURTS BUILDING WOULD HAVE CAPACITY FOR 10 COURTS, UM, DA'S OFFICE, COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, UM, SPACED FOR THE GRAND JURY TO MEET, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE NOW. UM, IT WOULD HAVE DISTRICT CLERK, IT WOULD HAVE, UH, COUNTY CLERK BOTH THEIR, UH, CRIMINAL UNITS, UM, AS WELL AS DEED RECORDS. UM, IT WOULD HAVE A, ONE OF THOSE COURTS THAT I TALKED ABOUT WOULD BE A JP COURT. IT WOULD HAVE A JURY ASSEMBLY ROOM. RIGHT NOW OUR JURORS ARE SCATTERED THROUGHOUT WHATEVER BUILDING THEY HAPPEN TO BE CALLED FOR JURY SERVICE IN, IF ANY OF Y'ALL HAVE JURY HAVE HAD JURY DUTY, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT? PEOPLE LITERALLY ARE SITTING ON THE STAIRS. UM, THEY'RE WALKING AMIDST THE DEFENDANTS, THE DEFENSE ATTORNEYS, WITNESSES. WE'VE HAD MISTRIALS COME OUT OF THAT. UM, AND SO WE ACTUALLY HAVE A JURY ASSEMBLY ROOM FOR THEM TO GO TO. UM, SO WE PAIRED THAT BACK ONCE THE COMMISSIONERS FOUND OUT, UM, HOW MUCH THAT WAS GOING TO IMPACT THE TAX RATE, UM, THEY, THEY SAID, AND, AND WE WENT TO WORK ON IT. THEY SAID, THAT'S TOO MUCH. UH, OR IT, YOU KNOW, EITHER TOO MUCH OR IT'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA PASS. WHICH IS THE SAME THING AS TOO MUCH BECAUSE WE, WE NEED ADDITIONAL SPACE, UM, FOR BOTH THE JAIL AND THE COURTS SYSTEM. SO WE CHANGED THE COURT SYSTEM DOWN TO 10 COURTS. UM, AND WE TO SHRINK THE BUILDING DOWN, UM, WE TOOK THE, UH, THE JP AND THEORETICALLY PUT THAT KNOT IN THE BUILDING, UM, TO, TO CHANGE THE SPACE SITUATION. ALTHOUGH IF WE HAVE EXTRA COURTS, POTENTIALLY THAT COULD BE DONE. BUT WE MOVED THAT TO SEVEN. WE TOOK THE, UH, COUNTY CLERK DEED RECORDS PART AND LEFT IT WHERE IT IS. UM, 'CAUSE THAT'S NOT DIRECTLY TIED TO THE COURT'S SIDE OF THINGS. UM, AND ESSENTIALLY DOING ALL THAT ALLOWED US TO SHRINK THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FROM 228,000 SQUARE FEET, GIVE OR TAKE TO DOWN TO AROUND 173,000 SQUARE FEET. OKAY. UM, WHAT THAT DOES IS IT, IT DOES SHRINK THE WINDOW DOWN FOR WHEN WE'RE GOING TO NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE BECAUSE ASSUMING THAT OUR POPULATION DOESN'T STOP GROWING, UH, AT THE RATE THAT IT IS, AND I HAVE PROBABLY LIKE Y'ALL, AND I KNOW WE HAVE REALTORS IN HERE, NO REASON TO BELIEVE THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN. RIGHT. UH, GROWTH IS COMING, IT'S GONNA CONTINUE COMING. UM, WE'RE ONE OF THE FEW PLACES THAT'S IN THE METROPLEX THAT PEOPLE CAN GO TO THAT HAS, WELL, THERE'S NOWHERE ELSE I THINK THAT HAS THE QUALITY OF LIFE LIKE WE DO. WE HAVE A GREAT PLACE TO RAISE A FAMILY HERE. UM, BUT THE GOOD THING ABOUT THAT, IT, IT SHRINKS THE WINDOW DOWN FROM, UH, 50 YEARS, MAYBE A LITTLE LESS THAN THAT TO MORE LIKE ANYWHERE, I'D SAY FROM 25 DOWN TO 15, UM, DEPENDING ON HOW QUICK THE GROWTH IS AND HOW, UH, HOW MUCH THE GROWTH AFFECTS OUR ACTUAL CASELOAD. UM, BUT IT REALLY TURNS IT MORE INTO A PHASED APPROACH TO WHERE WE CAN AFFORD TO HOPEFULLY BUILD A COURT BUILDING NOW. UM, AND THEN THE PLAN IS TO EXPAND ONTO THE BACK OF IT IN PHASE TWO OR PHASE THREE OR WHATEVER TO WHERE WE CAN ACTUALLY ON THE SAME LOCATION BE THERE FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. WHEREAS RIGHT NOW, AND AND FRANKLY SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE FOR 30 YEARS AS A PROSECUTOR IN THIS COUNTY, EVERY TIME WE NEED MORE SPACE, WE JUST POP UP ANOTHER BUILDING. AND THAT DOESN'T DO GOOD THINGS FOR THE ABILITY TO, UH, I MEAN, HAVING PEOPLE ON ONE SPACE ADDS A LOT OF EFFICIENCY. UM, IT ADDS A LOT OF SECURITY FROM THE JAIL PERSPECTIVE. WE'RE TAKING INMATES AND SCATTERING ABOUT ALL AROUND THE COUNTY, YOU KNOW, TO THIS BUILDING FOR CCL TO THE ANNEX FOR A DIFFERENT CCL TO OUR BUILDING, [00:50:01] UM, FOR THE DISTRICT COURTS. UM, IF YOU PUT 'EM ALL IN ONE PLACE AND YOU PLAN THAT FOR THE FUTURE, THAT ALLOWS YOU TO KEEP THE, UH, THE WHOLE THING SECURE TO WHERE YOU TAKE INMATES UP AND DOWN IN ONE SET OF ELEVATORS, THEY NEVER INTERACT WITH THE PUBLIC. CONTRAST THAT WITH WHAT WE HAVE NOW IN THE DISTRICT COURTS BUILDING, WHERE TO GET TO JUDGE, JUDGE QUISENBERRY GO OKAY IT TO GET TO JUDGE BERRY'S COURT. YOU LITERALLY, THEY COME IN THE SALLY PORT DOWN UNDERNEATH, THEY COME UP INTO THE AREA NEXT TO JUDGE TOWSON'S COURT. THEY GO ACROSS THE HALLWAY WHERE EVERYBODY WHO'S IN THAT BUILDING GOES THROUGH, INCLUDING JURORS, INCLUDING FAMILIES OF VICTIMS, UM, YOU KNOW, AND THESE INMATES, THIS IS ANYBODY, YOU KNOW, ANYBODY, THERE'S A LOT OF 'EM YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT, BUT THERE'S SOME THAT YOU ARE. UM, AND THAT'S JUST THE NATURE OF, OF CRIMINALS. UM, SOME ARE PROBABLY FINE AND SOME ARE VERY DANGEROUS. SO, UM, IT DOES ALLOW YOU TO HAVE THOSE SEPARATE ELEVATORS TO WHERE YOU CAN GET PEOPLE IN AND OUT SECURED. UM, SO WE'RE, WE ESSENTIALLY SHRUNK THAT DOWN TO WHERE IT'S A BITE THAT THE TAXPAYERS MIGHT BE ABLE TO ACTUALLY CONSIDER PASSING, WHERE THE OTHER ONE IS A MUCH BIGGER ASK. SO, UM, THE TOTAL AMOUNT WENT FROM ABOUT 500 MILLION DOWN TO 2 86 86 TO 86. AND AND IMPACT ON THE TAXPAYER IS, IS NOT QUITE LIKE HALF, IT'S ABOUT HALF. SO FROM, FROM 10 CENTS PER HUNDRED DOWN TO JUST UNDER FIVE BUCKS. YEAH, JUST UNDER FIVE. SO IMPACT OF THAT ON A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS, IF YOU WANNA FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH IT IMPACTS YOU FOR 5 CENTS, UH, THAT IS $50 ON A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS. AND SO JUST MULTIPLY THAT AS YOU'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW MUCH YOUR HOUSE IS APPRAISED AT. JEFF, CAN I, CAN I ADD ONE THING TO THAT IF YOU DON'T MIND? SURE. ABSOLUTELY. UM, I SPOKE WITH TROY HANSON AT THE PARKER COUNTY APPRAISAL DISTRICT TO CONFIRM THIS. AND HE SENT AN EMAIL OR COPIED ME ON AN EMAIL THAT CAME FROM THEIR LEGAL COUNSEL. IT IS VERY CLEAR THAT AN INCREASE IN COUNTY TAX DUE TO A BOND WILL NOT INCREASE THE TAX THAT SENIOR CITIZENS PAY. SO IF YOU ARE 65 OR OLDER AND YOU HAVE APPLIED FOR THE EXEMPTION, THAT PART'S IMPORTANT. YOU WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY PAYING MORE TAXES TO THE COUNTY FOR A BOND BE DISABLED TOO. CORRECT? PARDON? AND DISABLED TOO. OVER SIX FIVE DISABLED 60. CORRECT? YES. YES. SORRY. YES SIR. YES SIR. SO FOR, FOR THE FOLKS WHOSE TAXES ARE FROZEN, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR APPRAISAL DOES, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE RATE DOES ON THAT SENSE, IN THAT SENSE, THE, THE COUNTY BOND, WHETHER IF IT PASSES, WILL NOT AFFECT YOUR TAXES BY CAUSING THEM TO GO UP. WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT THINK NOT, WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT EVERYBODY IN HERE IS OVER 65 SOUNDED BACK. JUST I SEE A HAND UP IN THE BACK, JEFF. I WANTED TO SAY JUST ONE MORE THING. UM, EVERYBODY ALWAYS SAYS THAT THEY SUPPORT LAW ENFORCEMENT. LAW ENFORCEMENT DOES NOT END WITH LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. IF YOU DO NOT HAVE GOOD, STRONG PROSECUTORS, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOUR OFFICERS DO ON THE STREET, IT DOESN'T MATTER. UM, YOUR COUNTY WILL NOT BE SAFE IF YOU DON'T HAVE STRONG PROSECUTORS. AND IF WE CAN'T GET TO COURT, WE CAN'T BEHAVE LIKE STRONG PROSECUTORS. WE HAVE TO FIND WAYS TO DISPOSE OF CASES AND CONCLUDE THE CASES. AND AT A CERTAIN POINT THERE'S A BREAKING POINT, THERE'S A TIPPING POINT WHERE WE CAN'T GET ENOUGH CASES TO TRIAL TO WHERE YOU GET A LOT OF THE OTHER ONES THAT AREN'T GOING TO TRY TO GO TO TRIAL TO PLEA FOR SENTENCES THAT WE CAN BE COMFORTABLE WITH. THAT TRIAL IS, IS A HAMMER THAT YOU HANG OVER PEOPLE'S HEADS TO GET THEM TO PLEA ON THE CASES THAT YOU DON'T TRY. THAT'S JUST THE REALITY OF THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM. JUST TODAY WE GAVE A GUY, OR WE, WE CONVICTED HIM YESTERDAY, ON A CONTINUOUS SEXUAL ABUSE OF A YOUNG CHILD OFFENSE. UM, IN JUDGE TOWSON'S COURT TODAY, THE JURY GAVE HIM 50 YEARS, 20 YEARS, 20 YEARS. THOSE WERE ALL STACKED. UM, AND IF WE CAN'T GET THAT CASE TO TRIAL, WE CAN'T GET THAT VICTIM JUSTICE. BUT ALSO IT IMPACTS THE ABILITY OF US TO GET OTHER VICTIMS JUSTICE TOO. AND LET ME LEAVE YOU WITH THIS. UM, AND HOPEFULLY MY PHONE DIDN'T GO TO SLEEP WHERE I CAN'T FIND IT. I'M GONNA CUT THE CUSS WORDS OUTTA HERE. OKAY. OUR JAIL CALLS ARE RECORDED. WE LISTEN TO THOSE SOMETIMES THIS GUY'S, THIS GUY'S JAIL CALL FROM YESTERDAY. IF YOU GET IN TROUBLE IN PARKER COUNTY, YOU ARE BLANK. YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO SOME BLANK TIME AND GET THE HELL OUTTA HERE. WE HAVE TO HAVE THE [00:55:01] ABILITY TO GET PEOPLE SIGNIFICANT SENTENCES TO BE ABLE TO KEEP OUR COMMUNITY SAFE. AND IF WE CAN'T GET 'EM TO COURT, WE CAN'T DO THAT. SO WE NEED MORE COURTS. CAN YOU TALK ABOUT YOUR CASE A LITTLE? A LITTLE BIT? SURE. YEAH, GREAT QUESTION. SO WHEN I STARTED HERE, UM, OH, SORRY. AND I NEVER DID SAY, MY NAME'S JEFF SWAIN. I'M YOUR DISTRICT ATTORNEY. SORRY, I PROBABLY SHOULDN'T INTRODUCE MYSELF. , UM, I, I WANNA SAY, AND AND REINA IS OUR DISTRICT CLERK. SHE PROBABLY HAS BETTER NUMBERS ON THIS. I DID NOT BRING THEM WITH ME TODAY. UM, WHEN I STARTED IN THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE IN 1997, UM, I WAS TWO YEARS IN THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S OFFICE. BEFORE THAT WE HAD, I WANNA SAY AROUND 500 INDICTMENTS PER YEAR. WE NOW ARE AROUND 1300 PER YEAR. AND THAT, THAT HAS BEEN GOING UP PRETTY STEADILY. SO, UH, IT'S TWO AND A HALF, THREE TIMES WHAT IT WAS BACK IN THE DAY. OF COURSE I STARTED HERE. IT WAS, WE WERE ABOUT 65,000 PEOPLE OR SO WHEN I STARTED. AND YOU KNOW, NOW WE'RE THREE TIMES THAT. SO IT'S TO BE EXPECTED. COME, COME, COME, COME ON, SIR. THANK YOU. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE ANOTHER QUESTION? WELL, THERE WAS A LADY IN THE BACK WHO HAD HER HAND UP A FEW MINUTES AGO. I WANTED TO MAKE SURE HER QUESTIONS WERE ADDRESSED. SORRY, TO ME OR TO DEB. COME ON, COME ON UP IF YOU WOULD. PROBABLY. SORRY, I DIDN'T SEE YOUR, I DIDN'T SEE YOUR HAND. SORRY ABOUT THAT. IT'S OKAY. CRYSTAL HARRIS, UM, MY QUESTIONS ARE MORE ABOUT THE FISCAL PART OF IT. UM, I'M A NUMBERS NERD. SO I LOOK AT PROPERTY TAXES. MY QUESTION IS, HOW DID YOU DETERMINE, OR HOW DID THE HDR DETERMINE THE 5 CENT TAX INCREASE VERSUS THE 10 CENT TAX INCREASE? ARE THEY PROJECTING OUT THE FUTURE HOUSES THAT ARE EXPECTED TO BE BUILT IN PARKER COUNTY? ARE THEY BASED ON TODAY'S VALUES? ARE THEY PREDICT, ARE THEY PREDICTED ON FUTURE VALUES? SO THESE ARE OUR BUILDER GUYS OVER HERE, BUT THEY'RE NOT THE BOND COUNCIL, UH, SOUTHWEST, THEY'RE, AND THEY'RE NOT, THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO BE HERE TODAY. THEY, THEY WEREN'T ABLE TO BE HERE TODAY. THEY'LL BE HERE MONDAY. THEY'LL BE HERE MONDAY COURT AT 10 O'CLOCK. SO THEY'RE THE ONES THAT PROJECT THE NUMBERS FOR US. AND I CAN TELL YOU THE ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION IS, IS THAT THEY PROJECT THE WORST CASE SCENARIO. UH, THE HIGHEST POSSIBLE IN, IN ALL CASES. BUT THEY'LL BE HERE MONDAY. YOU CAN ASK EVERY QUESTION YOU WANT TO, IF YOU, IF YOU WANNA COME MONDAY AND, AND IS IT, THEIR NAME HAS CHANGED A LITTLE BIT. WHAT'S THEIR NAME? WELL, IT'S GEORGE WILLIFORD. I KNOW IT'S GEORGE WILLIFORD, BUT IT'S, IT'S SOUTHWEST HILLTOP. USED TO BE SOUTHWEST SECURITIES. NOW IT'S HILLTOP, HILLTOP SECURITIES. AND SO THEY'RE THE ONES THAT, THAT DO THAT EVERY DAY. AND, AND SO THEY'LL HAVE THE NUMBERS THEY NEED TO ANSWER THE NUMBERS QUESTIONS. WELL, WE'VE GOT, WE'VE GOT THE, JUST THE PRE PRELIMINARY STUFF HERE, THE PAYBACK THING. BUT WE DON'T HAVE ALL OF THE ANSWERS AND ALL OF THE, SO THEY, ON MONDAY THEY PRESENTED US A, UH, A DOCUMENT THAT, LIKE THIS, THE PERSPECTIVE, UH, FOR IT, FOR, FOR MONDAY'S NUMBERS. WE REJECTED THAT OF COURSE. AND, UH, SO THEY'LL BE BACK MONDAY WITH THE NUMBERS THAT THEY HAVE GOTTEN AS FAR AS THE CONSTRUCTION COSTS AND ALL THE COSTS ASSOCIATED. BUT THAT GAVE US SOME PRELIMINARY NUMBERS AND THAT'S WHERE WE CAME UP WITH THE LESS THAN 5 CENT NUMBER. AND MA'AM, IF, IF YOU WANNA STICK AROUND RIGHT AFTERWARDS, I CAN GET YOUR EMAIL. OKAY. AND YOU CAN, AND I CAN GIVE YOU MY EMAIL, YOU CAN SEND ME ALL THE QUESTIONS YOU HAVE. I WILL RUN THEM TO MR. WILLIFORD AND THEN GET THOSE ANSWERED. AND I DON'T MIND SENDING THEM BACK IF YOU, I'M, I'M GUESSING YOU DON'T NECESSARILY WANT TO COME BACK ON MONDAY. IF YOU WANT TO, YOU'RE MORE THAN WELCOME TO. OKAY. BUT IF THAT, IF THAT APPEALS TO YOU. OKAY. AND MY NEXT QUESTION WAS ALSO ABOUT THE NUMBERS. 'CAUSE THAT'S JUST THE WAY MY BRAIN WORKS. UM, SO I DID KIND OF A, A QUICK ANALYSIS BETWEEN WHAT THE COUNTY REVENUE WAS 10 YEARS AGO VERSUS WHAT THE COUNTY REVENUE IS TODAY. AND MY QUESTION IS, WHY WEREN'T FUNDS ALLOTTED ALONG THE WAY, KNOWING YOU WERE GONNA HAVE A BED SHORTAGE KNOWING YOU WERE GONNA HAVE THESE NEEDS COME UP? WHERE WERE THESE ITEMS CONSIDERED IN THAT BUDGET? WHERE WERE THE BED SHORTAGES CONSIDERED IN THAT BUDGET? I THINK WE WENT FROM SOMETHING LIKE 59 MILLION IN, OR 59 BILLION IN REVENUE IN 2013 TO 130 BILLION TODAY IN 2024. YEAH, MORE TODAY. SO IN EACH OF THOSE YEARS, THE, THE EXPENDITURES VERSUS THE REVENUE, THERE WAS ALMOST ALWAYS A SURPLUS IN THE BUDGET. SO WHY AREN'T WE MANAGING OUR MONEY JUST AS WE WOULD HAVE TO, AS HOMEOWNERS, AS PARENTS, AS FAMILIES, WE HAVE TO BUDGET OUT THOSE FUTURE COSTS. AND MY QUESTION TO YOU GUYS AND COMMISSIONERS BEFORE YOU IS WHY WEREN'T, WHY WASN'T THIS CONSIDERED IN THAT BUDGET THROUGHOUT THOSE YEARS? UM, IT, WELL, LEMME COVER ONE THING, UH, EVERY YEAR FOR AT LEAST WE DISCUSSED THIS YESTERDAY, UH, IN BUDGET, UH, DISCUSSIONS. I THINK EVERY YEAR THAT COMMISSIONER CONY HAS BEEN HERE, WHICH WOULD BE, DON'T SAY HOW 17 YEARS, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. THAT WE HAVE USED FUND [01:00:01] BALANCE TO BALANCE THE BUDGET EVERY YEAR NOW THROUGH, UM, LOTS OF GOOD DEPARTMENT HEADS, ELECTED, ELECTED AND APPOINTED DEPARTMENT HEADS THAT HAVE NOT SPENT ALL OF THEIR BUDGET, WE HAVE NOT DIPPED INTO THAT FUND BALANCE TO PAY THE BUDGET. BUT EVERY YEAR THAT I'VE BEEN HERE, WHICH IS 13 YEARS, WE HAVE BALANCED THE BUDGET WITH FUND BALANCE. IN OTHER WORDS, WE DIDN'T GO BACK AND SAY WE'RE GONNA RAISE THE TAX RATE. SO WE, WE WANT TO KEEP THE TAX RATE AS CLOSE AS WE CAN TO THE NO NEW REVENUE RATE. BUT AS FAR AS AS SAVING MONEY IN ORDER TO DO SOME OF THOSE THINGS, WE JUST BUILT 14 OUT OF MONEY THAT WE HAD 14 BEDS. BUT AS FAR AS SETTING MONEY ASIDE TO DO THIS, UH, WE HAVE NOT. 'CAUSE THE, THE AS AS WE TALK ABOUT THE GROWTH OF THE COUNTY, EVERYTHING ELSE GROWS TOO. IT'S NOT JUST JUST THIS AREA. IT'S EVERYTHING GROWS. AND THAT'S ALWAYS THE, THAT'S ALWAYS THE ANSWER. RIGHT. I WAS JUST CURIOUS FROM A FISCAL STANDPOINT, 'CAUSE I THINK WE HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT GOING FORWARD AND HOW DO YOU GO FROM A $59 BILLION BUDGET TO $130 BILLION? THAT'S LIKE A 218% INCREASE IN A 10 OR 11 YEAR SPAN. 10 OR 11 YEAR SPAN. SO I JUST, SO OUR BUDGET, OUR BUDGET LAST YEAR WAS $84 MILLION FOR THE COUNTY, 84 MILLION. SO YOU MAY BE, YOU MAY BE HAVING SOME MORE NUMBERS IN THERE THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH ROAD CONSTRUCTION. I THINK IT'S JUST LATERAL, I THINK IT'S LATERAL ROAD ROAD IN PARKER COUNTY. IT TOOK THEM RIGHT OFF YOUR WEBSITE. RIGHT OFF THE, YEAH. LADDER ROAD IS OUR BUS IS OURS HERE. OUR, OUR TAX RATE FOR LATERAL ROAD IS AROUND 5 CENTS. RIGHT. AND, AND HAS COME DOWN THE TIME THAT I'VE BEEN HERE FROM ABOUT NINE, SEVEN, 7 CENTS, SEVEN, EIGHT, WHAT IT WAS WHEN I CAME. SO YEAH. AND I'VE LOOKED AT THE RATES OVER TIME. MY, MY QUESTION ISN'T JUST THE SHEER DOLLARS RIGHT. AND HOW THOSE GET SPENT AND ALLOCATED AND WHERE I THINK I CAN ANSWER YOUR QUESTION EXACTLY. AND IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DIFFERENT WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT. BUT IF I, IF I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, YOU'RE SAYING, HEY, YOU GUYS HAVE COLLECTED ALL THIS MONEY FOR YEARS AND YEARS AND YEARS AND YOU NEVER THOUGHT TO PUT ANY OF IT ASIDE FOR ANY OF THIS STUFF. IS THAT, IS THAT FAIR? BAS BASICALLY, YES. THE SAME WAY WE WOULD HAVE TO DO MANAGING OUR BUDGET. EXACTLY. WE COULDN'T COME TO YOU AND SAY, OH, ACTUALLY I NEED AN EXTRA A HUNDRED GRAND THIS YEAR. BUT HERE'S THE THING, AND HEAR ME OUT ON THIS. REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS. YOU DON'T WANT US SAVING ANY EXTRA PENNIES OVER WHAT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. AND HERE'S WHY. NUMBER ONE, IF WE SIT HERE AND WE SAVE EXTRA MONEY EVERY SINGLE YEAR, THAT MEANS THAT WE TAXED YOU MORE THAN WE NEEDED TO IN THAT YEAR. AND THEN THE SECOND REASON IS, AND THIS IS THE REALLY IMPORTANT PART, LET'S REALLY THINK ABOUT THIS. LET'S TALK ABOUT THIS. DO Y'ALL WANT US ONLY DECIDING ON OUR OWN WHAT TYPE OF JAIL WE NEED TO BUILD? WHAT TYPE OF JUSTICE CENTER WE NEED TO BUILD? NO, ABSOLUTELY NOT. AND I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. IN A NORMAL HOUSEHOLD, UM, YOU SAVE FOR WHAT YOU WANNA PURCHASE IN THE FUTURE. THE BEAUTY OF US RUNNING ON OUR OPERATIONAL COSTS ONLY IS WHEN WE RECOGNIZE WE HAVE A NEED LIKE THIS. WE GO TO THE VOTER AND WE SAY, HEY, HERE ARE THE NEEDS. NOW VOTER, YOU GET TO DECIDE WHETHER OR NOT YOU WANT TO PAY FOR THIS LARGE CAPITAL PROJECT. WE TAX ENOUGH ON A REGULAR YEAR TO RUN OUR OPERATIONS, BUT WE DON'T TAX ENOUGH TO PAY FOR IN THE FUTURE A LARGE CAPITAL EXPENDITURE. AND PERSONALLY, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING BECAUSE IT HOLDS US ACCOUNTABLE TO Y'ALL. SO WHEN WE COME HERE AND WE SAY WE NEED TO BUILD A NEW JAIL OR WHATEVER, THE VOTER HAS THE CHOICE. IF WE WERE SAVING ALL OF THIS ALL ALONG ON OUR OWN, THE VOTE, THERE WOULD BE NO BOND. THERE WOULD BE NO VOTE. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? IT IT, IT DOES. I DISAGREE. I WAS TALKING MY WIFE. I DISAGREE WITH IT. BUT I I KNOW WHERE YOU'RE COMING FROM, FROM, I JUST, I WAS TALKING MY WIFE ABOUT THIS. YOU, YOU SPEND WHAT YOU'RE ALLOCATED. YOU'RE NOT MAKING A BUDGET AND THEN TAXING US ACCORDINGLY NECESSARILY. YOU ARE SEEING A TAX BASE AS IT INCREASES. LIKE OUR HOUSING VALUES, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE, WELL, HANG ON, HANG ON. WE ARE, WE ARE. WE, I YOU HAVE THAT BACKWARDS THERE. I THINK YOU'RE NOT, YOU KNOW WHAT? THE TAX BASE IS COMING IN THOUGH. YOU KNOW WHAT THE VALUES ARE. YOU KNOW WHAT MONEY'S GONNA BE ALLOCATED. I'M VERY FAMILIAR WITH GOVERNMENT CONTRACTS AND STUFF. I WAS JUST, THAT WAS MY QUESTION. YOU GAVE YOUR ANSWER AND I APPRECIATE IT. THAT'S ALL THE QUESTION. SO MY WIFE AND I WERE TALKING ABOUT THIS. UM, I DON'T HAVE TO ASK MY WIFE TO FILL UP MY TRUCK WITH GAS. YOU KNOW, I DON'T, SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO ASK ME IF SHE WANTS TO GO OUT TO EAT OR, OR WHATEVER. SO THE DAY-TO-DAY STUFF, WE DON'T REALLY, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A BUDGET THAT WE OPERATE BY THAT WE BOTH LOOK AT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO, YOU KNOW, RUN IT BY EACH OTHER. BUT I THINK I WOULD BE SLEEPING NOT ON THE COUCH. I THINK I'D BE SLEEPING ON THE CURB IF I WENT AND BOUGHT A NEW VEHICLE WITHOUT HER INPUT. I MEAN, SHE HAS [01:05:01] A VERY STRONG VOICE IN ANY LARGE EXPENDITURES. AND SO DO I BOTH WAYS. IN THIS SENSE, THE BEAUTY OF GOING, ALLOWING LARGE PURCHASES LIKE THIS TO BE VOTED ON BY RESIDE, IS THAT MAKES SURE THAT YOUR VOICE IS HEARD LOUD AND CLEAR EVERY SINGLE TIME. SO ANYBODY ELSE? COME ON UP, SIR. UH, WELL BEFORE YOU DO, CAN, CAN I HAVE HIM COME UP? HE'S BEEN WANTING TO COME UP FOR A LONG TIME. I'M, MY NAME'S TOM PAYS. I LIVE OVER ON FOX ROAD AND I JUST WANNA CLARIFY SOME THINGS IN MY MIND. OKAY. 'CAUSE I'VE HEARD A LOT OF THINGS THROWN AROUND, AND I'LL MAKE SURE I GOT ALL THIS RIGHT. UH, THE TAX RATE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU'RE SAYING ABOUT $50? UH, PER A HUNDRED THOUSAND. PER HUNDRED THOUSAND. OKAY. SO I'LL MAKE SURE THAT'S RIGHT IN MY HEAD. ON THIS 5 CENTS, THE JAIL, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDING ONTO THE JAIL. IS THAT, IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT RIGHT NOW? MM-HMM . ADDING ONTO THE JAIL, THE COURT FACILITY OR JUSTICE CENTER YOU WANT TO BUILD, THAT'S GONNA BE A TOTALLY NEW BUILDING. MM-HMM . IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. OKAY. YEAH. SO, ALL RIGHT. I'VE, THE FIRM I WORK FOR, THE COMPANY I WORK FOR, WE'VE DONE WORK WITH HDR AND I HAVE NOTHING BAD TO SAY AGAINST THEM. , GOOD FIRM, GOOD ARCHITECTURAL FIRM AND STUFF. BUT I SAW THE PICTURE OF THIS JUSTICE CENTER, AND I'M HOPING IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT. I KNOW JUDGE OVER HERE SAID HE WANTS SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE A COURT HA YOU KNOW, A COURT, AND, YOU KNOW, I WANT SOMETHING TO, I WOULD, IN MY COMMUNITY WANT SOMETHING THAT LOOKS GOOD TOO, YOU KNOW, BUT WE NEED TO LOOK AT PRACTICALITY AND COST AND THINGS LIKE THAT. AND I LOOKED AT THAT PICTURE AND IT'S JUST KIND OF BLOWING MY MIND TO SOMETHING. I COULDN'T, I PERSONALLY COULD NOT SUPPORT AT THE MOMENT, SOMETHING THAT LOOKED LIKE THAT. AND I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE THE COURTHOUSE HERE, AND I CAN UNDERSTAND WANTING TO DO THAT AND MAKE IT LOOK SIMILAR, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE COST INVOLVED IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT TOO, BUILDING SOMETHING LIKE THAT IS JUST, JUST THE ARCHITECTURAL PICTURE OF IT IS I'M SEEING DOLLAR SIGNS ON THERE, WHICH MAY NOT NEED TO BE THERE. I MEAN, ME AS A TAXPAYER, YOU KNOW, IT'S A STATE, STATE LEGISLATURE WOULD CUT SOME OF THESE PROPERTY TAXES AND MAYBE I'D BE MORE INCLINED TO, YOU KNOW, JUST JUMP THE GUN AND SAY, LET'S BUILD THAT TAJ MAHAL. BUT, YOU KNOW, COSTS , YOU KNOW, ESCROW 'CAUSE OF THE INSURANCE ESCROW JUST THREW MY ACCOUNT UNDER, YOU KNOW, MY HOUSE PAYMENT UP ANOTHER $300 A MONTH OKAY. BECAUSE OF INSURANCE RAISING, THREW MY ESCROW ACCOUNT OUT. AND THEN I HEAR PEOPLE OVER IN THE MILLSAP, YOU KNOW, PAYING DOUBLE THEIR WATER RATES OVER THE LAST TWO MONTHS. WATER'S A BIG ISSUE OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE PEOPLE MOVING INTO THE COUNTY. MY WELL'S PUMPING SILT, WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO? YOU KNOW? AND THEN I HEAR, OKAY, I'M THINKING TO MYSELF, I'LL DRILL ANOTHER WELL DOWN TO THE TRINITY, AND I'M HERE IN 10 YEARS, THAT'S GONNA GO DRY OUT TOWARDS THE WEST OF PARKER COUNTY. SO THAT'D BE A WASTE OF MONEY TOO, IF THAT'S THE CASE. SO, YOU KNOW, THESE THINGS ALL PLAY A PART IN WHAT I, YOU KNOW, HAVE TO VOTE FOR TO WHAT I'M GONNA BE PAYING IN MY TAXES AND STUFF. WHAT'S GONNA COST ME DOWN THE ROAD, YOU KNOW, I'M, I KNOW WE NEED THESE THINGS, AND I'M NOT SAYING, YOU KNOW, I'M GONNA GO AGAINST THAT. BUT, YOU KNOW, WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE PRACTICALITY OF BUILDING THIS COURTHOUSE FACILITY. WHAT'S IT GONNA LOOK LIKE? YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT A PIECE OF JUNK, BUT I WANT SOMETHING THAT LOOKS NICE FOR THE COMMUNITY. YEAH. I MEAN, WE, WE DID BOND ELECTIONS WHILE I LIVED DOWN IN JACKSON COUNTY FOR THE SCHOOLS, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD A HARD TIME GETTING BOND ELECTIONS PASSED, AND WE GOT TOGETHER AND WE WENT TO DIFFERENT ARCHITECT FIRMS, AND WE CAME OUT WITH A PRACTICAL SOLUTION THAT BUILDINGS LOOKED GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY. WE PRESENTED THAT IN A LOGICAL MANNER TO THE PUBLIC AND GOT THE SUPPORT OF THE PUBLIC. AND JACKSON COUNTY DIDN'T DO A BOND. YOU KNOW, EDNA DIDN'T DO A BOND ELECTION FOR YEARS UNTIL WE GOT THE SUPPORT THE COMMUNITY. AND THAT'S ANOTHER THING I THINK THIS IS BEING RUSHED WITH, AND WE DON'T KNOW THE FACTS AND, YOU KNOW, SO ANYWAY, I JUST WANTED TO CLICK, GET MY MIND CLEAR ON THE TAX RATE AND THEN WHAT YOU PROPOSED IN THIS, UH, STAGED APPROACH. YOU KNOW, THE, WHAT YOU, WHAT YOU'RE ACTUALLY PLANNING ON DOING THERE. SURE. SO I GET THAT STRAIGHT IN MY MIND. I'LL TELL YOU THIS, THERE'S NO MORE CONSERVATIVE BODY, GOVERNMENTAL BODY IN THIS COUNTY THAN THIS COMMISSIONER'S COURT. SINCE I'VE BEEN HERE. WE'VE LOWERED THE, UH, PROPERTY TAX RATE FROM 42 CENTS TO WHAT WE HAVE PROPOSED FOR NEXT YEAR OF 28. UM, WE PINCH PENNIES EVERY DOGGONE WAY THAT WE CAN. I SAID THE SAME THING TO MYSELF. WHEN I [01:10:01] SAW THE DRAWING, IT WAS AN ATTEMPT TO, TO MAKE THE, THE BUILDING LOOK LIKE A COURTHOUSE. AND THEN THEY EXPLAINED TO US HOW THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT IN A LESS EXPENSIVE WAY AND TRY TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THIS BUILDING. NOW IF THERE'S ADDITIONAL SAVINGS THERE, THAT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE OUT. HOWEVER, THAT WAS AN ATTEMPT ON THEIR PART IN A LOW COST WAY TO MIMIC WHAT THIS BUILDING LOOKED LIKE. I, I'M NOT FOR ANY OF THESE THINGS, BUT WE GOTTA HAVE 'EM. MM-HMM . I'M NOT FOR PAYING EXTRA TAXES FOR ANYTHING, BUT WE'VE GOTTA HAVE 'EM. IF SOMEBODY CAN EXPLAIN HOW WE WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THAT, I'M ALL FOR IT. YOU'RE NOT GONNA FIND ANYBODY , ANYBODY. UH, I, I THINK THE TERM CHEAP HAS BEEN USED AND ASSOCIATED WITH ME BECAUSE I ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT COMES THROUGH HERE, WHERE'S THE MONEY COMING FROM, HOW MUCH IT'S GONNA COST? SO, BUT THERE'S NOT ANY OTHER WAY, IS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO. UM, SO CAN WE MAKE SAVINGS? THAT'S WHY WE, THAT'S WHY WE'RE HEADED IN THE CMAR, UH, UH, PATHWAY SO THAT WE CAN EVALUATE EVERY BID AND, AND MAKE THE BEST VALUE FOR THE COUNTY THERE. BUT ALL THESE THINGS HAVE GOTTEN REALLY, REALLY EXPENSIVE. IT'S LIKE, EVERY TIME I GO TO BUY ANYTHING, IT'S ABOUT 50% MORE THAN I THINK IT'S GOING TO BE. THIS IS NO DIFFERENT, EXCEPT IT'S MORE THAN 50% MORE THAN I THOUGHT MY, MY WAY OF THINKING SHOULD BE. SO I DON'T LIKE IT. I'LL TELL YOU RIGHT NOW, I DON'T LIKE IT. ALL THOSE THINGS THAT YOU BRING UP ARE VALID POINTS. THINGS THAT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER INDIVIDUALLY. BUT WE CAN'T HAVE COUNTY BUSINESS WITHOUT IT. AND SO WE'VE GOT TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT. WHY DIDN'T WE, WHY DON'T WE ADD ON TO THE, THE COURT BUILDING THAT WE ALREADY HAVE. THERE'S NO ROOM. I MEAN, YOU ASKED WHY IS THERE A NEW BUILDING? WE'VE GOT TO HAVE A DIFFERENT LOCATION. UH, WE LOOKED AT, AND THIS, THIS COMMITTEE THAT, THAT THEY OUTLINED HERE, SPENT A YEAR AND A HALF ASKING ALL OF THOSE QUESTIONS THAT Y'ALL ARE ASKING EVERYTHING WHY THIS, WHY THAT? SO THAT, THAT'S HOW WE ARRIVED AT TODAY. AND, UH, THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, PLANS IN PLACE, UH, FOR, UH, GOING OUT TO EVERY GROUP THAT WE CAN COME UP WITH, HAVE EDUCATIONAL MEETINGS TO ANSWER EVERYBODY'S QUESTIONS, GET THE INFORMATION OUT, TELL PEOPLE HOW WE GOT HERE, WHY WE'RE DOING WHAT WE'RE DOING, AND, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE OUR ALTERNATIVES. BECAUSE LIKE I SAID, A VERY EDUCATED GROUP HERE SPENT ABOUT 18 MONTHS TRYING TO COME UP WITH THE BEST PLAN. SO THAT'S WHERE, THAT'S WHY, UH, WE'RE WHERE WE ARE TODAY. ALRIGHT. ALL RIGHT. I JUST WANT TO GET IT STRAIGHT IN MY MIND WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY GONNA BE SURE. TRYING TO VOTE FOR. SURE. OKAY. THANK YOU SIR. THERE'LL BE PLENTY MORE OPPORTUNITIES. YEAH. DO YOU NEED MY NAME AGAIN, LINDSAY? NO, WE, WE HAVE IT. WE'VE GOT IT. OKAY. ALRIGHT. I GOT, I GOT A FEW THINGS HERE. I GOT A FEW THINGS HERE. SO AS, AS WAS BROUGHT UP EARLIER, THIS NEED HAS BEEN KNOWN FOR, WELL, I'M GONNA START WITH THIS. I WAS HERE AT THE MEETING WHEN YOU VOTED TO MOVE FORWARD WITH THIS BOND. AND EVER SINCE THAT MEETING, AND SOME OF YOU WERE VERY KIND TO SHARE YOUR TIME WITH ME, ANSWER QUESTIONS. I HAVE BEEN TALKING TO PEOPLE ABOUT THIS EVER SINCE THAT MEETING. AND I HAVE BEEN TELLING THEM HOW MUCH THIS IS NEEDED. I HAVE BEEN SHARING WHAT JUDGE BERRY SAID AT THAT MEETING. I'VE BEEN SHARING WHAT THE JUDGE, WHAT, WHAT THE DA SAID. AND I'M SAYING, WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS, THIS IMPACTS US. SO I HAVE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THIS SINCE THAT MEETING. AND BEFORE I ASKED MY SPECIFIC QUESTIONS OR WHATEVER, WHEN I SAW THIS, I ACTUALLY ASKED AROUND AND I SAID, IS THIS A JOKE? I THOUGHT IT WAS A JOKE. IT'S, IT WOULD MAKE A VERY PRETTY WATERCOLOR. I'LL GO TO MY NUMBER TWO BEFORE I GO BACK TO ONE THROUGH FIVE. I HAVE BUILT A LOT OF BUILDINGS. I HAVE DESIGNED A LOT OF BUILDINGS. I USED TO CONSULT BUILDING EQUESTRIAN FACILITIES. AND I KNOW ONE THING, THE CHEAPEST THING IN THE WORLD IS A 90 DEGREE ANGLE. YOU PUT UP STEEL, YOU PUT UP A WALL, YOU PUT ANYTHING. IF IT'S 90 DEGREE, THAT'S YOUR CHEAPEST. YOU START ADDING IN CURVES AND ALL OF A SUDDEN THIS PRETTY STUFF GOES EXPONENTIAL IN COST. AND I HAVE HAD TO LOOK AT THOSE. I'VE DIRECTED THOSE. I'VE SERVED AS MY OWN CONTRACTOR. SO IT'S BEAUTIFUL. AND IT'S A JOKE. I THIS RIGHT HERE. I LOOKED AT THIS TODAY AND SAID, WELL, THAT'S GONNA KILL THAT BOND RIGHT THERE. THERE'S JUST NO WAY YOU CAN COME BACK FROM THAT. IT MAKES NO SENSE. SO THAT'S, I JUST WANTED TO TELL YOU, I'VE BEEN ADVOCATING FOR THIS BECAUSE THE NEED IS REAL. IT ABSOLUTELY IS. I'M A HUNDRED PERCENT. WE NEED [01:15:01] MORE JAIL SPACE. WE NEED ANOTHER COURT. SO IN, I'M GONNA SKIP DOWN TO ONE HERE. SO LET'S JUST SAY THAT THIS ALL PASSES AND WE HAVE A TWO YEAR PERIOD BETWEEN NOW AND THE TIME THE NEW BUILDING IS READY FOR OCCUPANCY. WHAT IS THE PLAN FOR A DISTRICT COURT TILL UNTIL THEN, IF THERE'S NO PLACE TO DO IT LAST WEEK AND LAST YEAR, AND THERE'S NO PLACE TO DO IT NOW, WHAT? WE'RE JUST GONNA WAIT TWO YEARS. WHAT IS THE PLAN FOR THAT? THERE HAS TO BE SOMETHING I I, I, I APPRECIATE THE PHASED IN. UH, I THE PHASE THING. WE, WE HAVE THIS NUMBER. IS IT, IT WAS SURPRISING ACTUALLY, IN LOOKING, LOOKING AT THIS. I'M LIKE, YOU CAN DO IT FOR THAT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CONCERNS ME ABOUT THIS IS ASKING A QUESTION AND SAYING, WELL, THEY'LL BE HERE MONDAY. THEY HAVE THE ANSWERS. OR, OR, OR WHOMEVER CAME UP WITH THIS DRAWING. WHOMEVER DOESN'T WORK FOR ME. WHOMEVER NEVER ASKED MY OPINION. WHOMEVER THAT ISN'T ELECTED. WE HAVE UNELECTED PEOPLE WHO APPEAR. I DON'T CARE. IT'S NOT JUST Y'ALL, IT'S NOT, IT'S EVERY MUNICIPALITY. THE AMOUNT OF THE BUDGET THAT IS NOW GOING TO CONSULTANTS IS 30 TO 50% NOW OF BUDGET SOMETIMES. AND THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO AREN'T ELECTED. AND WHEN SOMEONE ASKS A QUESTION OF OUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVES AND THEY HAVE TO SAY, HEY, THEY COME UP WITH THIS. THEY, THEY TELL US THEY DESIGN THIS AND THEY HAND ME THIS AND I'M GOING, WELL, THEN SOMEONE GAVE THEM WEIRDLY WEIRD PARAMETERS OR THEY'RE TELLING YOU, YOU NEED THIS. AND AS A TAXPAYER AND SOMEONE WHO'S DONE SOME BUILDING AND WHO BELIEVES IN THE NEEDS HERE, I'M SAYING, OH NO, WE DON'T. THAT WAS JUST LIKE, MAYBE I'M THE ONLY ONE IN THE ROOM, ME AND TOM. BUT IT'S LIKE, WHO? IT MADE NO SENSE. SO WE'RE HERE WITH THIS NUMBER BECAUSE THIS NEED WAS KNOWN. IT'S BEEN KNOWN FOR YEARS AND NOTHING WAS DONE. SO YES, Y'ALL CAN'T JUST DECIDE TO SPEND THE MONEY. YOU HAVE TO ASK VOTERS IF THEY WANNA SPEND IT. BUT WE COULD HAVE ASKED VOTERS FOR WAY LESS MONEY 5, 10, 15 YEARS AGO. IT'S NOT LIKE WE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS HAPPENING. AND THIS IS SOMETHING I'VE SAID IN PUBLIC, SO I WILL SAY IT HERE. 'CAUSE I DON'T LIKE TALKING BEHIND PEOPLE'S BACKS. THERE'S NO PROBLEM VOTING IN COMMISSIONER SALARIES ON PAR WITH DENTON COUNTY AND EVERYBODY ELSE WHO SAYS, BUT LOOK AT WHAT WE HAVE TO DO. YEAH, GREAT. BUT YOU HAVEN'T DONE IT. PINCHING PENNIES IS FINE. IF Y'ALL HAVE EVER RAISED CHAMPION LIVESTOCK OR GOOD BREEDING STOCK, YOU CAN, YOU CAN BUY FEED FOR NOTHING, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET, YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET GOOD PRODUCT. YOU CAN BREED THOSE ANIMALS AND YOU CAN FEED THEM GARBAGE AND YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET ANYTHING FOR YOUR MONEY. YOU PINCH PENNIES TOO MUCH. AND IT'S FOOLISH. SOMETHING I WANTED TO SAY, AND I HAVE GREAT RESECT FOR JUDGE QUISENBERRY, BUT I THINK IN THIS POLITICAL CLIMATE, I CAN UNDERSTAND THAT WE WANT TO HAVE PEOPLE PROUD OF PARKER COUNTY. I CAN SEE THAT WE WANNA HAVE THEM RESPECT A COURT, BUT RESPECT COMES FROM WHAT HAPPENS INSIDE THAT COURT, NOT FROM THE BUILDING. AND I THINK THE NUMBER ONE EXAMPLE OF THAT IS THE US CAPITAL. THAT BUILDING DOES NOT CONFER RESPECT ON ANYTHING. AS A MATTER OF FACT, WHAT HAPPENED INSIDE THAT BUILDING TODAY FOR MANY PEOPLE HAS JUST KIND OF LIKE SAID, THIS IS RIDICULOUS. YOU CAN BUILD A BUILDING, HAVE EVERYTHING YOU IN IT. NOW, I'M NOT SAYING THIS, YOU HAVE TO DO THIS, BUT I'M SAYING YOU CAN BUILD IT ALL ON 90 DEGREES AND YOU CAN CUT A WHOLE LOT OF THAT MONEY OUT OF THERE. IT WILL BE JUST AS EFFICIENT, JUST AS SAFE. AND I DON'T KNOW HOW THIS, THAT'S A PROBLEM. UM, DO WE, COMMISSIONER HOLD ASKED THE QUESTION, DO WE WANT Y'ALL TO DECIDE WHAT JAIL WE BUILD, WHAT JUSTICE CENTER WE BUILD? DO YOU WANT YOU TO DECIDE? YOU DO DECIDE. AND IF YOU'RE NOT DECIDING, THEN IT'S THE PEOPLE YOU'RE POINTING TO THAT ARE, THAT ARE CONSULTANTS THAT ARE BEING PAID BUT NOT ELECTED. YOU DO DECIDE. YES, WE DO WANT YOU TO DECIDE BECAUSE THAT'S YOUR JOB, NOT THE CONSULTANTS. IF YOU DON'T KNOW THE ANSWERS TO SOME OF THE QUESTIONS, UM, HOW DID THEY ARRIVE? UH, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT WAS ASKED, HOW DID THEY ARRIVE AT THIS TAX FIGURE? WELL, THEY'LL TELL [01:20:01] US HOW THEY DID IT LATER. IF WE ASK WHO APPROVED THE METHOD, THERE'S A LOT OF, I MEAN, I STARTED LIFE AS AN ACCOUNTANT. THERE'S A LOT OF WAYS TO DO THINGS. WHO'S APPROVING THE METHOD THAT THEY'RE USING? NOT JUST SAYING, WELL, WE'RE STUCK WITH THIS. SO THOSE ARE MY QUESTIONS AND I APPRECIATE YOUR TIME. AGAIN, I WANT THIS, I WANT A BOND TO GO FORWARD, BUT NOT FOR THAT BUILDING. THANK YOU. I WANT TO ADDRESS ONE THING. 'CAUSE I, IT, I THOUGHT I WAS CLEAR, BUT I, I GUESS I WASN'T. WHEN I SAY US MAKING A DECISION, I SIMPLY MEAN WE'RE TALKING EVEN AT THE REVISED FIGURE AT $286 MILLION. YOU'RE A HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT THAT IT'S OUR JOB TO MAKE SURE THAT A QUALITY DECISION HAS BEEN REACHED. BUT WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT DECIDE, I MEAN, THE VOTERS HAVE TO BE EMPOWERED TO VOTE AT THE BALLOT BOX. YOU DON'T WANT A COUNTY TO TAKE THAT OUT OF YOUR HANDS. AND IF WE SAVE THAT MONEY, HANG ON JUST A SEC. IF WE SAVE THAT MONEY TO WHERE Y'ALL NO LONGER GET THE RIGHT TO VOTE, TO ME, THAT WOULD BE UNACCEPTABLE. IT'S OUR JOB TO BRING THE IDEAS AND TO OVERSEE THE PROCESS OF THE IDEAS BEING GENERATED. UM, BUT WHEN I SAY DECIDE IN THE CONTEXT THAT I SAID IT EARLIER, I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE VOTERS HAVE TO BE EMPOWERED, EMPOWERED TO VOTE. THAT'S THE DECISION I'M TALKING ABOUT IS THE, IS THE VOTE IN THE BALLOT BOX. LARRY, IF YOU WOULD COME ON UP. MY NAME'S LARRY BARTOLI AND UH, I LIVE IN HARMONY CIRCLE IN WEATHERFORD, TEXAS. I MADE A LOT OF NOTES AND I HOPE I CAN KIND OF TURN, SPIN THE PIECE OF PAPER AROUND AND IT, AND IT, AND IT MAKES SOME SENSE. ONE THING THAT WE LOOK AT WHEN IT'S $106 TO SEND A PRISONER OUT OF, OUT OF COUNTY, WHAT ARE WE, WHAT, WHAT IS OUR ACTUAL COST? 'CAUSE IF WE HAVE THAT PRISONER HERE, WE GOTTA FEED HIM CLOTHING, LAUNDRY HIM AND SO FORTH. I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT FIGURE IS ABOUT 80. IF IT'S $80, THEN I THINK IT'S AROUND 80, THEN IT'S, THEN IT'S $26 THAT IT ACTUALLY 5 87 45. 87 45. OKAY. SO THEN IF YOU SEND CURRENT CONTRACT, IF YOU SEND THEM OUT, YOU'RE ACTUALLY ONLY COSTING YOU 20 BUCKS A DAY. EXTRA. EXTRA. YEAH. THAT'S A, THAT'S A FIGURE THAT HADN'T BEEN, HADN'T BEEN DISCUSSED UNDER MY FUNNY MATH. BUT THAT'S A COMMISSIONER. YOU GOTTA HAUL 'EM OUT THERE AND HAUL 'EM BACK IF THEY'RE, IF THEY COME BACK TO COURT. SO ONLY THE ONES THAT GO, THE ONES THAT GO OUT ARE THE ONES THAT PROBABLY NOT GONNA HAVE TO COME BACK TO COURT. INCRE, INCREMENTAL COSTS ARE INCRE. YEAH, THERE'S SOME OTHER COSTS INVOLVED. NOT INCLUDED IN THAT, BUT YOUR POINT'S WELL TAKEN. MEDICAL, MEDICAL NEEDS. YEAH. UM, YEAH, I, I APPRECIATE THAT. AND IT'S, IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND. LIKE HERE, YOU YOU, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A FAMILY OF FOUR KIDS, BUT YOU DON'T BUILD A FOUR BEDROOM HOUSE TO START WITH. YOU GOTTA GROW INTO IT. AND THAT'S WHAT, WHAT WE HAVE TO DO HERE. WE HAVE TO BE ABLE TO GROW INTO IT. WE JUST CAN'T, OUR INCOME DOESN'T ALLOW US TO JUST GO BUILD A, A FOUR BEDROOM HOUSE. 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA NEED A FOUR BEDROOM FAMILY A LITTLE LATER, UH, A LITTLE LATER ON. AND, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE LOOK AT IN THE FROZEN TAXES SITUATION. I I I, I LOOKED AT IT LIKE THIS. I MAY BE RIGHT, I MAY BE WRONG. LET'S SAY YOU GOT 120,000 PEOPLE AND 30,000 OF THEM ARE OVER 65, THAT'S 25%. WELL, DID HE PROJECT THAT NICKEL AT 120,000 OR DID HE PROJECT THAT NICKEL AT, AT, AT, UH, 90,000, WHICH WOULD BE 25% LESS? BECAUSE IF HE DIDN'T DO THE MATH THAT WAY, THEN THE 90,000 THAT WE'RE PROPOSED TO DO TO PAY THE NICKEL INCREASE ARE ACTUALLY GONNA HAVE TO PAY A SIX AND A HALF CENT INCREASE BECAUSE THE 30,000 OLDER PEOPLE ARE GONNA BE FROZEN. MR. WILLIFORD HAS ALWAYS GIVEN US THE MOST CONSERVATIVE, UH, AS COMMISSIONER WALDEN SAID, KIND OF THE WORST CASE SCENARIO, AS JUDGE DEAN SAID EARLIER, IN ALL THE BONDS THAT WE'VE DONE UNTIL LAST YEAR, THEY DID NOT AFFECT THE TAX RATE SIMPLY BECAUSE THE COUNTY HAS BEEN GROWING AND IT'S BEEN OFFSETTING THAT. SO I, I THINK MR. WILLIFORD DID ACCOUNT FOR WHAT YOU'RE DESCRIBING. I WAS JUST CURIOUS ABOUT THE, THE FROZEN VERSUS THE, YOU KNOW, THE, THE, THE NON FROZEN AND, AND HOW THEY, HOW THEY WERE INCLUDED. WE'RE GONNA HAVE, WE'RE GONNA HAVE [01:25:01] GROWTH, WE'RE GONNA HAVE INCREASED INCREASED VALUE. A 50 YEAR PLAN, I DON'T THINK NEEDS TO BE A 50 YEAR BOND. BECAUSE IS IT A, HOW, HOW LONG IS THE BOND PROJECTED FOR 25 YEARS? 25 YEARS? BECAUSE I KNOW IN BACK WHEN WE HAD A SCHOOL DISTRICT WHEN, WHEN WE BUILT ALL THE NEW SCHOOLS, THEY BULLDOZED 20-YEAR-OLD SCHOOLS AND FINANCED THE BONDS FOR 30 YEARS. AND YOU'RE GOING, WELL, THAT DON'T SOUND, THAT DOESN'T, THAT MATH DOESN'T COMPUTE. SO I WAS JUST CURIOUS ON THE 50 YEAR PLAN VERSUS THE 25 YEAR BOND THAT'S BEEN, THAT'S BEEN, UH, UH, BEEN PRESENTED. IT'S NOT AN EASY DEAL. I'LL TELL YOU THAT. IT, IT EVERY E EVERYBODY COMPLAINS, UH, UH, UH, ABOUT TAX RATES UNTIL YOU, UNTIL YOU HAVE POTHOLES YOU CAN'T DRIVE THROUGH MM-HMM . AND EVERYBODY'S GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT TAX RACES AS LONG AS WE GOT THE SAFETY, THAT WHEEL DON'T SQUEAK. AND WE LOOK TO OUR LEADERS TO PROVIDE THOSE, TO PROVIDE THOSE CONSTITUTIONAL INALIENABLE RIGHTS. AND IT'S NOT EASY TO DO. SO WE THANK YOU FOR BEING FRUGAL STEWARDS OF NOT ONLY OUR MONEY, BUT STEWARDS OF YOUR MONEY ALSO. 'CAUSE Y'ALL ARE TAXPAYERS. THANK YOU FOR SAVING THE BEST FOR LAST . UH, JIM, COME ONE QUESTION. WHAT KINDA LIKE COLOMBO? OH YEAH. ONE MORE THING. WHAT, WHAT'S THE COST PER SQUARE FOOT? HAVE THEY DONE ANY UH, UH, ANALYSIS ON THAT? UH, THEY, THEY HAVE. WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO, THAT NUMBER HAS BEEN REDUCED DOWN. UH, INITIALLY I, I BELIEVE IT WAS AROUND 900 TO A THOUSAND. I THINK IT'S NOW BELOW THAT NUMBER. AND ONE OF THE THINGS TO CONSIDER ALSO THAT WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, I KNOW WHAT THE EXECUTIVE SESSION STAYS IN EXECUTIVE SESSION, BUT A CONCEPT HERE THAT IS CRITICAL TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT IF THIS BOND PASSES AND THEN IT GOES OUT PER BID, AND THEN WE OBVIOUSLY GET IN THE LOWEST BIDDER, THAT NUMBER IS EXPECTED TO EVEN GO DOWN FURTHER. AND SO EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE IN THE EIGHT OR 900 NOW, THAT NUMBER IS LIKELY TO GO DOWN WELL BELOW THAT. SO THAT'S THE EXPECTATION OF THAT'S THE REALITY OF CONSTRUCTION AND TODAY. YEAH. AND YOU ALSO RUN THE RISK OF, OF OF, OF BOND INTEREST RATES GOING UP TOO WHILE WE'RE, WHILE YOU'RE TRYING TO GET IT, GET, GET IT PASSED AND SO FORTH. SO THERE'S, BUT THAT'S A CRITICAL NEED HERE AT THE TIME. THERE'S A DUAL-EDGED SWORD THAT YOU GOTTA LOOK AT. IT IS, IT'S THE TIME VALUE OF MONEY IS A KEY FACTOR HERE AND IT'S BEEN TALKED ABOUT AND ADDRESSED. UH, THAT'S WHY, AND, AND AGAIN, WE CAN'T LEGALLY TELL YOU THAT TO VOTE FOR OR AGAINST. UM, AND ONE OF THE, THE JOKINGLY THINGS I SAID WHEN WE WENT OUT AND, AND PASSED THE LARGEST TRANSPORTATION BOND IN THE HISTORY OF PARKER COUNTY LAST YEAR AT 130 MILLION. I I JUST SAID THAT IF YOU DRIVE I 20, YOU'RE GONNA, YOU'RE GONNA GO VOTE . NOT THAT YOU'RE GONNA GO VOTE FOR IT, BUT, UH, THE CRITICAL THING HERE IS THAT THIS WILL GO TO A BOND. AND TO KEEP THIS ONE THING IN MIND IS THAT IT'S CHEAPER TO BUILD IT TODAY THAN IT WILL BE 20, 10, 15, 20 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD. LEMME ASK ONE, ADD ONE MORE THING. IF, IF LOOKING AT THIS AS A PHASED APPROACH AND, AND TRY TO BE STRATEGIC PLANNING FOR FUTURE GROWTH, UM, YOU HAVE TO PUT A LITTLE EXTRA IN THE FIRST, THIS FIRST PHASE UTILITIES AND, AND OVERSIZE SOME THINGS PLANNING FOR FUTURE GROWTH. SO I WOULD ANTICIPATE THAT THAT MIGHT PUT A LITTLE MORE PRESSURE WHEN YOU LOOK AT A COST PER SQUARE FOOT. ONE, ONE OTHER THING VERSUS THE SAME THING IF UTILITIES ARE ALREADY ON SITE KIND OF DEAL. ONE O ONE OTHER THING THAT JUST CROSSED MY FEEBLE MIND WAS, UH, YOU BUILD THESE FA YOU BUILD THESE FACILITIES, WHAT DO YOU DO WITH THE EXISTING FACILITIES ONCE THEY'RE MOVED AND EMPTY? YOU STILL GOT INSURANCE, YOU STILL GOT, YOU KNOW, YOU STILL GOT MAINTENANCE ON A ROOF THAT'S GOING TO DETERIORATE. YOU STILL GOT OTHER, OTHER COSTS. MY HOPE IS THAT WE'RE ABLE TO SELL THOSE. THAT'S EASY. YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE, I MEAN THE COUNTY ATTORNEY'S BUILDING RIGHT HERE ON THE SQUARE IS VERY VALUABLE PROPERTY AND I'M PRETTY SURE THAT WEATHERFORD WOULD LIKE TO TURN THAT INTO, YOU KNOW, RETAIL AND DOWNTOWN AND GET IT, GENERATING THEM SOME TAX MONEY AND SALES REVENUE. YEAH. BECAUSE WE GET, YOU KNOW, SO YEAH, SO CONSOLIDATING AND GETTING INTO MORE MODERN AND EFFICIENT BUILDINGS WERE, YOU KNOW, THE UTILITIES DON'T COST NEARLY AS MUCH. THE ROOFS AND THE UPKEEP AND [01:30:01] MAINTENANCE AND ALL OF THOSE, I, I THINK ON THE BACKSIDE WILL DEFINITELY HAVE AN IMPACT ON, ON THIS PROJECT. TO ADD TO THAT, VIRTUALLY EVERY BUILDING THAT WE HAVE, UH, AS ROOF NEEDS TO BE REPLACED BECAUSE OF THE RECENT HAILSTORM . AND I THINK THAT, UH, MAINTAINING ONE BUILDING AND CONSOLIDATING, AND THAT WAS REALLY THE KEY GOING INTO THIS, IS TO TRY TO CONSOLIDATE AS MANY DEPARTMENTS AS WE COULD DO, UH, TO, UH, THE COMMISSIONER'S COMMENTS ABOUT THIS COMMISSIONER A COMMENTS ABOUT THIS IS THAT SELLING THESE PROPERTIES OFF THEN SELLING IT AND GENERATING SALES TAX 'CAUSE WE'LL GET A HALF PERCENT SALES TAX, WHICH IS WHAT, 12, $13 MILLION OF OUR BUDGET. SO IT'S, IT'S HUGE. SO IF WE CAN DO THAT AND GENERATE SALES TAX OUT OF THIS AND SELL THAT AND NOT HAVE TO PLACE THE ROOF ON THAT DARN BUILDING, THAT'D BE GREAT FOR US. GOOD ENOUGH. THANK Y'ALL. LARRY, OUR AUDITOR, UH, MESSAGED ME 'CAUSE SHE'S LISTENING TO YOUR SAGE WORDS . UM, SHE, SHE HIGHLIGHTED A PART ON THE SHEET WHERE IT DOES SAY THAT THE FROZEN TAXES HAVE BEEN ACCOUNTED FOR IN THOSE CALCULATIONS. SO I I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING BUT YOU'RE NOT AHEAD OF THEM YET, . OH, HE WILL EVENTUALLY. YEAH. THANK YOU LARRY. WILL THEY APPLY THE SALE OF THE EXISTING REAL ESTATE THAT YOU'RE SAYING THEY WOULD SELL? WILL THEY APPLY THAT TOWARDS THE BOND? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION, BUT IT WOULD NOT, BUT IT WOULD GO INTO THE GENERAL FUND AND THEN BENEFIT THE, THE OPPORTUNITY TO KEEP THE TAXES LOW AND THE COURT CAN ADD TO THAT IF THEY WOULD LIKE TO. BUT THE BOTTOM LINE OF THAT IS WE GIVE US OPTIONS AND THE ABILITIES TO KEEP YOUR TAXES LOW. WOULD THESE BE BUILT CONCURRENTLY? THAT, THAT HASN'T BEEN DECIDED? WE WE'RE STILL IN THE PHASES OF RIGHT NOW OF LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE CONCEPTS OF, WE'RE JUST NOW TODAY LOOKING AT WHAT THE OPTION IS, IS WHETHER WE BUILT A NEW JAIL OR THEN FACTORING IN WHAT'S GONNA GET THE COST DOWN TO LOOK AT EXPANDING THE EXISTING CAPACITY OF WHAT WE HAVE. WHETHER THAT HAPPENS SIMULTANEOUSLY ALONG WITH BUILDING A NEW JUSTICE CENTER. FIRST IT'S GOTTA GO TO THE, THE VOTER AND ONCE THAT PASSES, THEN WE'LL START WORKING AND BEGIN THAT PROCESS. IF THEY, IF BOTH WOULD PASS, WOULD THEY BE BUILT CONCURRENTLY OR WOULD YOU WAIT TILL ONE WOULD BE DONE SO THAT NO, WE WOULD NOT WAIT. WE WOULD, BECAUSE AS, AS WE'RE TRYING TO STRESS, THERE ARE IMMEDIATE AND ONGOING AND ESCALATING NEEDS. SO IT IS IN EVERYONE'S BEST INTEREST THAT BOTH PROJECTS BE COMPLETED AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. I I AGREE A HUNDRED PERCENT. I JUST KNOW THAT SOME OF THE TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS THAT WE'RE SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN A LITTLE FASTER MAY NOT HAVE BEEN HAPPEN. I WAS JUST MAKING SURE THAT IF IT WAS WE'RE GONNA GET ONE DONE, THEN WE'RE GONNA GET TO THE OTHER ONES. ABSOLUTELY NOT. I, I BELIEVE THEY WOULD GO CONCURRENTLY. RIGHT. AND WE KNOW THAT TIME'S MONEY AND SOME VOLATILITY. I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW THE IMPACT, SOME OF THE VOLATILITY OR UNCERTAINTY IS TARIFF EFFECT ON CERTAIN THINGS AS WELL. SO, SO I THINK THE FASTER THAT WE COULD, IF, IF THE VOTERS APPROVE THIS, THEN I THINK THAT IT IS OUR JOB TO TRY TO MOVE AS FAST AS POSSIBLE. CAN YOU, NOW I KNOW THAT THIS, YOU EITHER CAN ASSURE US OF THIS NEXT QUESTION OR YOU CANNOT, WHICH I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU CANNOT, UM, CAN YOU ASSURE US THAT THIS JUSTICE CENTER IS NOT BEING CONSIDERED FOR I 20 ROAD FRONTAGE? I DON'T KNOW THAT, I DON'T KNOW THAT WE SHOULD SAY WHAT LOCATIONS IT'S BEING CONSIDERED OR NOT. SO, SO I KNOW YOU CAN'T GIVE US THE LOCATION, BUT IF IT'S NOT BEING CONSIDERED FOR I 20 ROAD FRONTAGE, THEN IT'S PRETTY EASY TO SAY WE'RE NOT CONSIDERING I 20 ROAD FRONTAGE. YEAH, IF YOU CAN'T SAY THAT, THEN ONE COULD REFER THAT YOU ARE CONSIDERING I 20 GROWTH FRONTAGE. YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE EXPANSION OF I 20, THE JUSTICE SIDE, THE LOCATION, YES. I I DON'T THINK IT'S, IT'S NOT GONNA BE ON INTERSTATE 20 I HEARD TODAY. SEE, THIS IS, THIS IS THE RULE. LOOK, LOOK, I JUST WANT TO, THE REASON THAT I'M VERY RESERVED IS BECAUSE I DON'T WANT THE SPECULATION. I DON'T WANT SOMEBODY, YOU KNOW, IF SOMETHING CAME OUT AT A LOCATION WE'RE LOOKING AT AND SOME INVESTOR JUMPS ON PROPERTY AND ALL OF A SUDDEN MESSES UP POTENTIAL LOCATIONS OR PRICE POINTS OR THINGS LIKE THAT FOR THE PROJECT. THAT, AND THE REASON FOR MY QUESTION IS YES MA'AM, I HEARD THAT AS A RUMOR. OH, OKAY. AND SO, YOU KNOW, YOU KNOW HOW RUMORS ARE. WELL I UNDERSTAND. SO MY FIRST IMPRESSION WAS, OH, I SURELY NOT. YEAH, BECAUSE THE COST OF THE GROUND AND TAKING A VERY VALUABLE LOT OFF THE TAX ROLL. [01:35:01] WHAT? SO THAT RUMOR YEAH. ADDED TO LIKE WHAT I'M SURE THERE'S A, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF RUMORS I'M SURE, BUT IF OR IF AND WHEN THE BOND ELECTION IS POSTED, THERE'S GONNA BE A LOT OF INFORMATIONAL SESSIONS. YOU CAN SLEEP BETTER TONIGHT KNOWING IT'S NOT GONNA BE ON INTERSTATE . AND I DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THAT UNTIL I WAS IN THIS ROOM. THE ONE THING THAT I, THAT I CAN TELL YOU IS IT HAS TO BE IN THE COUNTY SEAT IN WEATHERFORD. SO THERE YOU GO. IS THERE ANYBODY? IT HAS TO BE WITHIN THE CITY LIMITS OF THE COUNTY SEAT. YEAH, THE CITY LIMITS THE ORIGINAL PLAN TO PUT BOTH BUILDINGS CLOSE PROXIMITY TO EACH OTHER. WE'VE LOOKED AT EVERY OPTION IN THE WORLD, INCLUDING BOTH RIGHT NEXT TO EACH OTHER, SEPARATE LOCATIONS, ET CETERA. WE HAVE, UM, SPENT 18 MONTHS LOOKING INTO THINGS LIKE THAT WITH SOME FOLKS THAT ARE PRETTY DARN SMART. AND SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WAS HEAVILY CONSIDERED AND HEAVILY WEIGHED. THE ONLY REASON I ASK THAT TOO IS WE DO HAVE, YES SIR, YOU'RE IT WISE DECISION WHAT YOU BILL TODAY, BUT YOU GO GET MONEY AND ASK US TO GO FOR IF I DO NEED TO TAKE, GET RID OF THAT AT SOME POINT IT'S NOT GONNA WORK. I CAN'T IT ANYMORE AND PUT COURTS GONNA BE, I STILL WISH THEY WERE TOGETHER MYSELF, BUT THAT, THAT'S ALL I'M ASKING. YEAH, SO THINK THE, THE, KEEP THAT IN CONSIDERATION, RIGHT? YOU DON'T WANNA SHORTCHANGE YOURSELF. WE'RE GONNA SPEND BUNCH OF MONEY, WE WANNA BE ABLE TO DO SOMETHING. THERE'S BEEN HOURS AND HOURS AND PROBABLY DAYS OF DISCUSSION AND PLANNING WITH THAT, TAKING THAT INTO CONSIDERATION AND WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT TODAY REGARDING THE JAIL WOULD TAKE US FROM UNDER 500 TO JUST UNDER 1200 AS FAR AS LONG-TERM CAPACITY WITH THE STRUCTURES THAT WE'RE CONSIDERING RIGHT NOW. AT THAT POINT WE MIGHT DECIDE TO EVEN ADD ON FURTHER THAN THAT. UM, SO I I, FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, I THINK THE LONG TERM IS RELATIVELY SECURE. IT'S NOT AS SECURE AS GOING OUT AND BUYING A THOUSAND ACRES FOR, YOU KNOW, THE BIGGEST JAIL IN THE WORLD, WHICH I DON'T THINK ANYONE IN HERE WANTS US TO DO. JIM, UH, COME WOULD YOU COME ON UP. SORRY TO MAKE YOU WAIT. I'M JIM WEBSTER AND I USED TO BE A COUNTY COMMISSIONER HERE. I SAT IN THAT SPOT RIGHT THERE NEXT TO CONLEY. I'M OLDER THAN CONLEY. ANYWAY, I'D LIKE TO COMMEND YOU GUYS FOR THE UNITY IN THIS COURT. I'VE BEEN IN A COURT WHEN WE HAD DISSENSION ON TOP OF DISSENSION AND EVEN COMMISSIONERS WERE FROWNED UPON TO SPEAK. SO I WOULD LIKE TO COMMEND YOU, JUDGE DEAN, FOR ALLOWING ALL THIS CONVERSATION TO HAPPEN. UM, YOU GUYS ARE DOING A GOOD JOB AND I THINK EVERYBODY HERE HAS GOOD INTENTIONS AND STILL, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID LAST NIGHT, PARKER COUNTY CONSERVATIVE MEETINGS, WE GOTTA BE FRUGAL. WE GOTTA KNOW, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GETTING THE BEST BANG FOR OUR BUCK. BACK IN MY DAY, WE CONSIDERED EVERYTHING YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT 20 YEARS AGO. YEAH, 20 YEARS AGO WE TALKED ABOUT THE JAIL AND WE ACTUALLY BUILT THE NEW JAIL 20 YEARS AGO. GOT MY NAME OUT THERE ON IT. PROUD OF THAT JIM. I THINK THAT WAS 35 YEARS AGO. YOU JUST BE QUIET. . WE TALKED ABOUT IT EARLIER. IT WAS 1989 I THINK, . OH, IT WASN'T THAT LONG AGO, BUT IT WAS A WHILE BACK. UH, WE TALKED ABOUT A DISTRICT COURT. YEAH, WE TALKED ABOUT THE JAIL. WE TALKED ABOUT THE JUSTICE CENTER. OH YEAH. ALL THAT TIME. ALL WE DID IS TALK AND LOOK AT US NOW 20, 25 YEARS LATER, PRICES HAVE SKYROCKETED, TRIPLED AND QUADRUPLED. UM, I'M JUST PROUD YOU GUYS ARE GETTING ALONG THINKING ALL THIS STUFF THROUGH. SPEAKING OF GETTING ALONG , YOU MAY NOT WANT ME TO MENTION THIS, BUT I SEEN YOU NEARLY GET INTO A FIGHT WITH ANOTHER COMMISSIONER RIGHT, IN THAT THAT'S RIGHT. RIGHT IN. AND HE RIGHT IN FRONT OF THAT DOOR AND HE DESERVED IT. , WE STEPPED IN FRONT OF YOU. I TELL YOU WHAT, I DIDN'T KNOW IF HE WAS GONNA HIT ME OR I WAS GONNA HIT HIM. OH, I THOUGHT Y'ALL WERE GONNA DO, BUT SINCE HE WAS BIGGER THAN ME, I THOUGHT THAT WAS THE BEST OF ALL. YOU KNOW, STEP BACK A LITTLE BIT, JIM, THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS BEFORE WE DIGRESS ANY FURTHER HERE. BUT, UM, NO SERIOUSLY, YOUR POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN AND I'M AWARE OF THE SITUATION. IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN IS NOW. AND THE CHALLENGE HAS BEEN [01:40:01] THAT MY PREDECESSOR, JUDGE RILEY HAD AND AND TRANSPORTATION BONDS THAT, THAT THIS COURT SUCCESSFULLY PASSED. HE, IT WAS SANDWICHED IN BETWEEN THE NEEDS OF THE OTHER THINGS LIKE THE JUSTICE CENTER AND TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BALANCE THOSE OUT. AND THE NEEDS WERE, YOU KNOW, YOU DID BRICK WILLIAMSON AND YOU DID ALL THESE PROJECTS, THE COURT DID ALONG WITH THE JUDGE. AND UH, IT WAS TOUGH TO TO TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO BALANCE THOSE BONDS WITHOUT HAVING TO TAX PEOPLE. AND THE SAME THING EXISTS TODAY. 'CAUSE WE HAVE ANOTHER PENDING TRANSPORTATION BOND THAT WILL BE COMING IN THE FUTURE, OBVIOUSLY. AND AGAIN, MY COMMENT, IF YOU DRIVE 20, YOU'RE GONNA GO VOTE. BUT, UM, IT IS, IT'S TOUGH DEALING WITH THE GROWTH. AND NOW THAT WE'VE CATAPULTED DOWN TO THE NUMBER FOUR SLOT IN THE NATION, 254 COUNTIES IN THE, IN THE STATE THAT, YOU KNOW, AND YOU'VE FACTORED THIS SAID NUMBER FOUR IN THE COUNTRY. THIS IS TOUGH. I MEAN, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T WANT TO TAX PEOPLE AND WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN TO KEEP FROM THAT. BUT IT, IT JUST, THERE'S A PRICE TO IT AS THE COMMISSIONERS HAVE SAID, WELL SOMEDAY WE HAVE TO BITE THE BULLET. AND UNFORTUNATELY THE CAN HAS JUST BEEN KICKED DOWN THE ROAD ALL THESE YEARS. UH, AND I LIKE TO SAY ONE OTHER THING ABOUT THAT IS, I'M GLAD I'M NOT IN YOUR CHAIR, , THIS IS THE TOUGHEST ISSUE I HAVE SEEN COME UP. I MEAN, WE HAD SOME ISSUES, BUT THIS IS THE TOUGHEST ONE I'VE SEEN YOU GUYS HAVE TO ADDRESS. UH, OKAY, NOW I'LL GET TO THE PART THAT I WAS HOPING SOMEBODY ELSE WOULD ASK THESE QUESTIONS. UH, YOU'D HAVE NO IDEA WHERE THIS IS GONNA BE BUILT. OBVIOUSLY, IF YOU DO, YOU CAN'T SAY, UH, WHO IS THE ARCHITECT FOR THIS BUILDING? HDR. WHO? THE, THE FOLKS SITTING. WHAT'S THEIR NAME? HDRH. D-R-H-D-R RIGHT HERE. OKAY. I WANNA FIND OUT. UH, HOW DID THEY GET THE JOB? WE DID AN RFQ. IS THAT A, IS THAT A BID PROPOSAL REQUEST FOR QUALIFICATIONS. OKAY. THAT WAS PUT TOGETHER 16 MONTHS AGO. YEAH, PROBABLY TWO YEARS AGO, SOMETHING LIKE THAT. IT WAS PUT TOGETHER A WHILE AGO. A LARGE NUMBER OF QUESTIONS WERE PUT TOGETHER THAT A SIGNIFICANT NUMBER OF SIMILAR FIRMS RESPONDED TO. THEY WERE GRADED ACROSS A SERIES OF DIFFERENT METRICS AND HDR WAS THE TOP SCORING. UH, SO YOU HAD SEVERAL, UH, COMPANIES LOOK AT IT AND THEY, I DON'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD. I THINK IT WAS OVER 10. OKAY. MR. SWAIN SAY WE HAD ABOUT 15 APPLIED. WE INTERVIEWED EITHER FIVE OR SIX AND THEY BROUGHT, THEY BROUGHT FULL TEAMS. WE HAD I THINK THREE PEOPLE FROM EVERY LAST ONE OF 'EM. UH, WE INTERVIEWED THEM ALL. WE TALKED, WE TOURED, WE WENT TOURED BUILDINGS TO A SMALLER STACK FOR THE ONES THAT WE INTERVIEWED. UH, AND, AND THESE GUYS, UH, THEY WERE THE BEST FIT FOR OUR COUNTY. OKAY. I'M JUST CURIOUS. NO, GREAT QUESTION. YEAH, I WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT. WHAT DOES HBR STAND FOR? WELL, YEARS AGO WHEN IT ORIGINALLY, UH, CONCEIVED IT WAS THREE PEOPLE. PENN. I'M JUST GLAD IT'S NOT FREEZING. NICKEL . I WAS AFRAID OF THAT MAN. UM, WHAT'S THE, UH, ARCHITECTURAL FEE ON THIS PERCENTAGE WISE? AND WHAT IS IT? BASIC STUFF BASED ON, UM, RIGHT NOW WHAT WE'RE CARRYING IN THE NUMBERS IS 8.5%. THAT'S DECENT. YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD PERCENTAGE. AND THAT'S WIDE RANGE. YEAH, EVERYTHING IS THAT BASED ON TOTAL COST OF CONSTRUCTION? WELL, AND THAT'S AN ESTIMATED, BUT I MEAN THE SERVICES WILL BE WHATEVER THE COUNTY DECIDES. SO IF IT'S A $300 MILLION BOND ISSUE, YOU THAT'D BE EIGHT AND A HALF PERCENT. OKAY. THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A GOOD NUMBER. AND IT'S USUALLY NEGOTIATED TO STIPULATED RATHER THAN PERCENTAGE. I'VE SEEN THIS, I'VE SEEN THIS COURT, NOT THIS COURT. DO A 10% ARCHITECT ON 6% MARKET VALUE. DON'T TELL 'EM THAT. WELL, THEY'RE NOT, THEY WEREN'T EVEN MENTIONED. THE EIGHT AND A HALF. I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE PAST, LARRY, I'VE SEEN THIS COURT DO 10% WHEN IT WAS SIX IN THE MARKET. JOKING. I'M NOT PUTTING UP WITH THAT KIND OF STUFF ANYMORE. IF I COULD, I I CAN'T HELP IT. BUT IT USED TO SIT THERE AND JUST GRIND ME ANYWAY. I'LL SIT, I'LL, I WON'T TALK ABOUT THAT. THAT'S MAINLY WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR. UH, WHAT IS THE BONDED AND DEBTS RIGHT NOW OF THE COUNTY? TRANSPORTATION ONLY WE HAVE ZERO DEBT [01:45:01] OUTSIDE OF TRANSPORTATION. YOU HAVE ZERO. OKAY. WHAT'S IT TOTAL DEBT OF THE COUNTY? THE TOTAL DEBT OF TRANSPORTATION, BONDS, WHATEVER THE TOTAL DEBT IS. THE TOTAL DEBT IS JUST THE TRANSPORTATION BONDS. THAT'S BEEN A PASSED BY, PASSED BY THE VOTER. I, I DON'T HAVE THAT NUMBER WITH ME. UH, WE'D HAVE TO GET THAT. WELL, IT'S PROBABLY, WHAT WAS THE LAST, I KNOW WHEN I WAS HERE IT WAS LIKE 80 MILLION AND I THAT'S PROBABLY STILL IN EFFECT AND WELL, IT MAY BE PAID OFF. NO, IT'S BEEN PAID OFF. BEEN PAID OFF. THE LAST ONE THAT WE APPROVED THE VOTER VOTERS APPROVED WAS 130,000,030. 130. SO THIS WILL DOUBLE THE SIZE OF THE DEBT. WILL THAT AFFECT YOUR CREDIT RATING? NO, NO, NO. WE HAVE A GOOD BOND RATING. YEAH, YOU DO. NOW HOW MUCH? AND WE HAVE, WELL, I DON'T KNOW. WE, WE, IT WAS GOOD WHEN I GOT HERE AND IT WAS STILL GOOD. OKAY. THAT'S ALL I HAD TO SAY. EXCEPT I'M GOING TO AGREE WITH THIS LADY HERE THAT SAYS DON'T BUILD A TAJ MAHAL. THIS LOOKED LIKE IT CAME RIGHT OUTTA, UH, NAPLES, ITALY, , WE, WE DON'T NEED THAT. THESE PEOPLE, WE CAN'T, I MEAN THE PEOPLE HERE HAVE TO MAKE LIVINGS. WE CAN'T JUST DROP, YOU KNOW, WE COME ON. WE DON'T NEED THAT KIND OF STUFF. WE KNOW. AND YOUR POINTS ARE WELL TAKEN, JEFF. THANKS. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. WE NEED YOU GUYS TO HELP US OUT ON THIS. THANK YOU. WE NEED IT. WE DO NEED IT. PAGE 17 OF OUR, UH, MOST RECENT CERTIFIED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS, WHICH IS, I CAN'T HEAR YOU. PAGE 17, MOST RECENT, THE CERTIFIED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS ON OUR WEBSITE, WHICH ARE ON THE FINANCIAL TRANSPARENCY PAGE. YOU SCROLL DOWN THERE, YOU CLICK ON THE 2024 REPORT, WHICH IS THE ONE THAT WAS POSTED THIS YEAR. 'CAUSE IT LOOKS A YEAR BACKWARDS ARE REPORTED. UNLIMITED TAX ROAD BONDS DEBT WAS A 200 MILLION TAX NOTES AT 3.5 MILLION. BASICALLY THE TOTAL WAS 207 MILLION, TWO 70 MILLION 207 7. AND THAT'S ALL TRANSPORTATION. OKAY. WELL WE PROBABLY GOT ALL THE REVENUE TO COVER IT. I'M SURE WE DID. OKAY, WE'RE GOOD. THANK YOU JIM. ALRIGHT, IS THERE ANYONE ELSE? JUST A QUICK QUESTION. UM, IF THE BOND ISSUE WERE TO PASS, HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE? YOU BUILD THE JUSTICE CENTER AND JUST THE JUSTICE CENTER, HOW LONG DOES THAT TAKE TO BILL? WELL, THE PEOPLE BEHIND YOU MIGHT CAN ANSWER THAT BETTER THAN US. I THINK WE'VE HEARD APPROXIMATELY FOUR TO FIVE YEARS. AND THAT'S TURNKEY LIGHTS ON PEOPLE WALKING IN, UH, YOU'RE HAVING COURT THERE, ALL OF THAT. UM, IS THAT NUMBER STILL ACCURATE, SIR? YEAH, I, I, YES, I I THINK THAT'S BALLPARK. YOU COULD PROBABLY GET IT DONE A LITTLE SOONER IF WE GET THE CMAR BOARD EARLY AND WE START TO INTEGRATE BOTH THE DESIGN AND THE CONSTRUCTION PHASE AND PAST EARLY PACKAGE NUMBER DOWN. I, I HAVEN'T BEEN IN THIS CHAIR VERY LONG, BUT I'VE LEARNED REAL QUICK, UH, IF YOU GIVE TIMELINES, GO ON THE GO ON THE A SIDE. YEAH. YEAH. WELL, YEAH. ESPECIALLY WITH THE MARKET FORCES RIGHT NOW. AVAILABILITY . YEP. IS THERE ANYBODY ELSE THAT HAS ANY QUESTIONS THAT WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK? FIVE YEARS. WHAT'S THE PLAN FOR DISTRICT COURT IN THE MEANTIME? ADDITIONAL, WE'RE STILL, WE'RE STILL WORKING ON THAT. I, I JUST BEING HONEST WITH YOU, WE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT OPTIONS AND LOOKING AT OTHER INTERIM SOLUTIONS AND WE'RE CONTINUING THOSE DISCUSSIONS. THEY'LL DO WHATEVER THEY GOTTA DO TO, TO GET THE JOB DONE. WE GET A THIRD DISTRICT COURT, WE'LL GET A THIRD DISTRICT COURT. WE'LL DEAL WITH THAT AND WE'RE DEALING WITH IT NOW. ANYBODY ELSE? ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS OR COMMENTS? YES, MA'AM. JUST A QUICK QUESTION. YOU MENTIONED THAT IT WAS GONNA BE 900 PER SQUARE FOOT OR I'M SORRY, WHAT WAS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE? IT'S STILL, IT'S A MOVING TARGET. ONCE WE, IF THE BOND PASSES AND WE GO OUT FOR BID FOR CONSTRUCTION, THAT NUMBER COULD GO WELL DOWN BELOW THAT. OKAY. DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW WHAT THE MARKET RATE IS RIGHT NOW FOR SIMILAR KIND OF BUILDING? NO, WHAT WE HAVE TO GO BY ARE THE, IS OTHER BUILDINGS THAT ARE BEING CONSTRUCTED IN TEXAS THAT ARE SIMILAR TO THIS. AND THE PROBLEM IS THAT, THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN THINGS IN THESE TYPE OF BUILDINGS THAT WOULDN'T BE IN ANOTHER BUILDING THAT WAS NOT A COURT BUILDING. SO THAT'S WHAT WE RUN INTO IS COMPARING THOSE NUMBERS. OKAY. SO THEY'RE BUILDING A BUILDING IN SMITH COUNTY RIGHT NOW. AND SO THEY'RE, THEY'VE BEEN ABLE TO COMPARE THOSE AND THEY HAVE ESTIMATORS THAT HAVE GONE THROUGH AND, AND ESTIMATED THE COST TO THE BEST OF THEIR ABILITY. AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE RELYING ON. OKAY. THERE'S, THERE'S TWO POINTS THAT I WANT TO ADD TO THAT. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BUILDING THAT WOULD BE BUILT SEVERAL YEARS FROM NOW AS FAR AS BEING COMPLETED. SO IF A BUILDING WAS COMPLETED LAST YEAR, THE PRICE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THOSE IS GOING TO BE DIFFERENT. [01:50:01] WE'RE TALKING ABOUT 2028 AND 2029 PRICES. THAT'S WHAT HAS TO BE BUILT INTO THE BOND. BUT BECAUSE WHAT CANNOT HAPPEN IS WE CAN'T ASK FOR MONEY ON 2025 PRICES AND THEN GET TO 20 28, 20 29 DURING ACTUAL CONSTRUCTION. AND THEY SAY, HEY, THOSE PRICES AREN'T GOOD ANYMORE. YOU NEED TO COME UP WITH MORE MONEY. WE HAVE TO BE VERY, VERY CONSERVATIVE WITH THAT SO THAT WE CAN ACTUALLY GET DONE WHAT WE'RE TELLING YOU WE WANT TO GET DONE. SO THE BONDS WON'T ACTUALLY BE SOLD FOR SEVERAL YEARS. THAT IS GOING TO PROBABLY BE DONE IN TRANCHES TO ACCOMMODATE WHEN THE COSTS ARISE. SO IF WE HAVE TO PURCHASE LAND, THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE ON THE FRONT END, OBVIOUSLY. BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE ALL OF THE COSTS ACCUMULATE ALL AT ONCE. IT'S GOING TO BE FULL TAX IMPACT IS ACTUALLY GONNA BE PHASED IN THIRD YEAR. THIRD YEAR IS IS WHEN THE FULL, I BELIEVE IT, UM, IN THE ORIGINAL, I THINK IT WAS 17 MILLION, IT'S GONNA BE LESS THAN THAT. WE'LL HAVE THAT EXACT NUMBER ON MONDAY. BUT IN THE ORIGINAL PROPOSAL, IT WAS YEAR THREE THAT IT GOT TO THE HIGHEST PORTION AS FAR AS WHAT AFFECTED TAXES YEAR ONE WAS. SO, SO AGAIN, WE CAN'T SELL ALL THOSE BONDS AND THEN DRAW INTEREST FOR EXAMPLE, ON THEM BECAUSE IF WE DO, WE HAVE TO WIND UP PAYING THAT BACK TO THE IRS AND THAT'S, THAT'S NOT PERMISSIBLE. YEAH. SO I'M JUST, I'M JUST MAKING THE POINT THAT CONSTRUCTION'S OUT THREE YEARS, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE PUTTING THOSE BONDS IN THE MARKET FOR CONSTRUCTION FOR THREE YEARS. CORRECT. AND, AND THE REASON THAT WE EMPLOY BOND COUNCIL WHO, UH, WHO ARE INVESTMENT BANKERS, THEY, THEY SIT THERE AND WATCH THE BOND MARKET AND DETERMINE WHEN THOSE WHEN'S THE BEST TIME TO, TO, TO SELL THOSE BONDS. AND SO THEN HAVE THE SALE SPREAD OUT OVER TIME THERE. ANYBODY ELSE? HAVE ANYBODY ELSE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? YEAH, I'VE GOTTA ADDRESS, I'VE GOTTA ADDRESS THIS, JIM, THIS, THIS I, I'VE GOTTA ADDRESS THIS. THE, UH, UH, YOU MADE A MENTION OF COMMISSIONER'S SALARIES. THE, THE NUMBER THAT YOU SEE ON THE WEBSITE INCLUDES OUR TRAVEL ALLOWANCE THAT WE HAVE BECAUSE WE ACTUALLY TRAVEL. I HAVE, UH, I HAVE A PICKUP THAT I'VE JUST MEASURED THE MILEAGE ON. I PUT, I DON'T LOOK AT THE WEBSITE. WELL, I'M, PEOPLE ALWAYS BRING UP THE SALARY. UH, THESE, THESE, THESE FOLKS HERE. FIRST OF ALL, UH, IN OUR DAILY COURSE OF WORK, I, I'VE PUT 10,500 MILES ON MY PICKUP SINCE JANUARY THE, THE 15TH. OKAY. SO I'M TYPICALLY DON'T MEASURE MY MILEAGE, BUT I HAVE ONE THAT I JUST USED FOR THAT, FOR THIS TRAVEL HERE. UH, OUR, OUR SALARIES IS SOMEWHAT LESS THAN, UH, SEVERAL, UH, IN THE COUNTY'S DEPARTMENT HEADS, DEPARTMENT HEADS IN THE COUNTY MAKE MORE THAN WE DO. I'M, I'M LOOKING AT THE ACTUAL SALARIES. I'M, I'M JUST TELLING YOU SO THAT, YOU KNOW, SO THAT A STATEMENT WAS MADE AND, AND THERE ARE DEPARTMENT HEADS AND THERE ARE ADMINISTRATIVE POSITIONS IN THE COUNTY THAT PAY MORE THAN COUNTY COMMISSIONER DOES. SO, AND THEY'RE NOT SITTING HERE TODAY, , I CAN'T HELP BUT NOTICE THEY'RE NOT SITTING HERE TODAY AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE SITTING HERE WHEN WE, WHEN WE APPROVE THE BUDGET. AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA SIT, BE SITTING HERE WHEN WE APPROVE THE, UH, TAX RATES OR MAKE A VOTE FOR THIS, THIS BOND. SO, UM, I, I TAKE THAT, I, I TAKE THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, JIM, BECAUSE I WANT PEOPLE TO KNOW THAT, UH, THERE'S NOT AN OVERPAID COMMISSIONER SITTING UP HERE AND WE TAKE EVERY DEAD GUM PENNY, EVERY CENT PERSONALLY. WELL, WHEN THAT GETS SPENT, YOUR SALARY ARE ON THE WEBSITE. I KNOW. I'M I'M SAYING THAT THEY INCLUDE THE TRAVEL REIMBURSEMENT THAT WE GET. IT'S NOT JUST SALARY ON THERE. SO JUST WANT TO CLARIFY THAT. THANKS, THANKS FOR THE, UH, OPPORTUNITY TO SAY THAT. JUDGE, I GOT ONE QUICK QUESTION. CAN YOU ALL GO IDENTIFY REAL ESTATE NOW BEFORE THIS BOND ISSUE SO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO PUT AN OPTION ON IT PRIOR TO THIS BOND ISSUE AGAIN, CHIEF? YEAH, WE WE'RE, WE'RE, WE'RE ALREADY WORKING ON ALL THAT. THAT'S ALL BEEN TAKEN CARE OF. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, JEFF? ONE, ONE THING, UM, WE REALLY HAVEN'T HAD A CHANCE TO DO, THERE'S BEEN, THERE WAS A LOT OF CONCERN ABOUT WHETHER THE, THE APPEARANCE OF THE BUILDING WAS CAUSING COST. AND I, I THINK WE MAY REMISS IF WE DON'T GIVE OUR ARCHITECTS AN OPPORTUNITY TO ADDRESS THE WAY YOU CAN BECAUSE LIKE, HOW MANY OF Y'ALL THINK THAT THAT BUILDING THAT WE SAW THE PICTURE OF IS ALL STONE OF SOME SORT? DOES IT LOOK LIKE IT? YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU BUILT IT OUT A REAL LIMESTONE OR WHATEVER OTHER, COULD Y'ALL ADDRESS THAT? AND HOW SOMETIMES Y'ALL CAN MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT'S REALLY, REALLY EXPENSIVE. OKAY. OKAY. UH, THANK YOU. UH, I'LL BE, BE GLAD TO ADDRESS [01:55:01] THAT. AND, UH, I ALSO WANNA SAY THANK YOU TO THE GENTLEMAN THAT RECOGNIZED THAT THE, UH, THAT THE LOOK OF THAT RENDERING, UH, IS THE SAME LOOK OF THIS COURTHOUSE. 'CAUSE THAT, THAT THAT WAS THE, UH, THAT THAT WAS WHAT WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO DO THERE AS WE WORKED WITH FOLKS ON THIS AND WE LOOKED AT A LOT OF DIFFERENT OPTIONS ON, ON WHAT TO DO. UH, THE REASON AND, AND THAT THAT PARTICULAR OPTION, UH, IS TO, UM, UH, FEELING LIKE THE, THE HISTORY AND CULTURE, UH, OF, OF PARKER COUNTY AND WEATHER WEATHERFORD IS EMBODIED IN THIS BUILDING. SO WE TRIED TO TAKE SOME OF THOSE, UH, INTO THE, TO THE NEXT PROJECT. THEN I GUESS TO ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION, WE, WE LOOKED AT HOW TO, UH, DO THAT IN AN ECONOMICAL WAY. AND WE HAVE FOUND, AND WE HAVE, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, WE HAVE DOCUMENTED PRICING ON THIS WHERE, UH, USING, UM, UH, IT'S A-A-G-F-R-C AND, AND SOME MATERIALS LIKE THAT WHERE YOU CAN GET THE LOOK OF, OF, OF STONE WITHOUT USING, UH, YOU KNOW, ACTUAL CAST STONE AND THAT, THAT KIND OF THING. AND THEN ALSO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO GET REALLY GOOD COMPETITIVE RESULTS WITH, THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT STONE PRODUCTS AVAILABLE OUT THERE. SO WHEN WE COMPARED IT TO LIKE ARCHITECTURAL PRECAST, WHICH IS KIND OF A CONVENTIONAL MATERIAL, UH, THAT HAS A MORE MODERN CONTEMPORARY LOOK, UH, THERE, THERE'S REALLY, AT LEAST FROM THE WAY WE'RE LOOKING AT WORKING, LOOKING AT IT WITH OUR COST ESTIMATOR RIGHT NOW, THERE'S NOT A WHOLE WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENCE IN THAT BECAUSE, UH, THEY, THOSE, UH, THOSE OTHER SYSTEMS TO GET THAT HISTORICAL LOOK AND CLASSICAL LOOK, IT'S JUST GOTTEN MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE OVER TIME. SO THAT'S, AND, AND, AND THAT'S SOME RESULTS THAT WE'VE SEEN ON A COUPLE OF RECENT PROJECTS. SO, UH, BUT AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE HEARD, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF WHAT THE, THE LOOK HAS TO BE. I MEAN, THIS IS GOOD FEEDBACK TODAY TO GET, GET THE FEEDBACK OF THIS GROUP AND WE CERTAINLY TAKE THAT TO HEART AND WE'LL WORK WITH THE COMMISSIONERS IN THE, UH, IN THE, AND THE COMMITTEE TO, UH, GET TO THE FINAL RESOLUTION ON WHERE, WHERE WE END UP ON THIS. BUT THAT'S, UH, HOPE THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION. THANK YOU. ANYBODY ELSE, ANYBODY ELSE WHO WOULD LIKE TO, ANY COMMENTS, QUESTIONS? WE APPRECIATE YOU COMING. AGAIN, WHAT WE, WE REALLY TRY TO DO IS BE AS TRANSPARENT AS WE CAN AND THAT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING THIS FORUM HERE TODAY AND THIS, UM, OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO COME AND SPEAK AND ASK QUESTIONS. THERE'LL BE MORE, BE MORE OPPORTUNITIES FOR THIS AS WELL. SO THANK YOU AGAIN FOR COMING. UM, THERE'S A MOTION. THANK Y'ALL. BEFORE I EVEN HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN, I'VE ALREADY GOT IT. SO THE RECORD SHOW THAT WE'LL ADJOURN AT 4 27. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.